Racer Suspension

[Toby Lang]

Originally Posted by C and W Racing

I can only assume that maybe she is listed as the car owner. In reading about it, it sounds like the total fine is $5000
Chuck

Well, if you are driving a car that someone else owns and you get selected for teardown and you refuse to teardown, you get suspended for a year. The owner doesn't get suspended also, do they?

Or if you go to teardown and get caught cheating, only the driver is suspended, right?

[Tony Janes]

The owner is not suspended.

[SSDiv6]

Originally Posted by Evan Smith

Sounds like a lot of speculation and that leads to misinformation.

Sammy, stock belts may be strong, but they are not designed for a high-speed crash. The race belts we wear are designed to stretch so as to absorb energy and not cause us internal injury. I doubt factory belts would do this in a crash that is beyond highway speeds.

Evan, with all due respect to your automotive knowledge, the seat belt material does not stretch to absorb energy; on the contrary, the webbing is tighter and the reason why they feel stiffer.

It is the design of the belt based on Biomechanics and the way is anchored that provides the protection during a crash. By design, it is one of the reasons why racing belts are wider than OEM.

[SStockDart]

Originally Posted by Toby Lang

Well, if you are driving a car that someone else owns and you get selected for teardown and you refuse to teardown, you get suspended for a year. The owner doesn't get suspended also, do they?

Or if you go to teardown and get caught cheating, only the driver is suspended, right?

I am not so sure, Toby. In the case of Jerry Echman, I believe that the entire team was suspended........However, obviously, that was a completely different situation.
I was DQ'd for an engine infraction and we had conversation about suspension and a fine. NHRA chose to do neither due to the minor nature of the infraction......But, they could have. My wife is the owner of our car.......no mention was made of suspending her, even though her name is on the tech card as owner.

Regarding this suspension, I believe that you all have read the NHRA report......"Counterfeit" SFI tags............nothing more or nothing less. They didn't say that they are bad people (they aren't), or anything else.

[C and W Racing]

Originally Posted by Tony Janes

The owner is not suspended.

So if you drive a car that someone else owns and something about it is illegal and it gets found, the owner gets a free pass but the driver gets penalized? To be honest, that sounds backwards to what it should be. What if the driver had no idea something is wrong. There are a lot of people, me included, that drive a car that's owned by someone else. I know that the vast majority have no idea if the cars they are driving is completely legal.
Chuck

[Toby Lang]

That's the way I've always heard it was done. It's the driver's responsibility to make sure the car is legal. Of course, you can't check everything, but that's the risk you take for driving someone else's car.

I can see where the pros are a different story though. The driver, owner and crew chief are well defined unlike the sportsman classes. NHRA does things similar to the way NASCAR does it.

[sammy pizzolato]

evan you missed my point. my point is that if a 20 year stock seat belt half the width half the thickness will hold up a car. a two year old race belt can't be bad in two years.the two year rule on seat belts should be every five years at the least.there is no way that a racing belt should go bad in two years.my good friend owns a wire rope co he has a tester.we tested a ten year old racing belt and the metal hardware broke and the belt never broke. and jeff teuton had him test it.

[Bobby Brannon]

You as the driver signed the tech card. You are the only one (driver) that's has to be held accountable. Doesn't matter who own's the car. Bob Dennis is the only person who can answer what happen.(don't count NHRA tech person)

[Greenlight]

Originally Posted by sammy pizzolato

evan you missed my point. my point is that if a 20 year stock seat belt half the width half the thickness will hold up a car. a two year old race belt can't be bad in two years.the two year rule on seat belts should be every five years at the least.there is no way that a racing belt should go bad in two years.my good friend owns a wire rope co he has a tester.we tested a ten year old racing belt and the metal hardware broke and the belt never broke. and jeff teuton had him test it.

Sammy, the OEM seat belts (~1.8" -2.0" wide) have a minimum break requirement of 6000 lbs. and must retain at least 60% of that strength (3600 lbs.) after long term exposure to radiation (i.e. 20 years), etc. (see FMVSS # 209). For a 220 lb. driver (95% percentile), the 20 year old seat belt can withstand about 17g (maybe a 60 mph crash in a modern car).

The attachments (metal portions) each must withstand at least 2500 lbs. (during a crash the seat belt takes the entire load, while the load is distributed to several hardware points.
Generally speaking, the hardware maintains its strength for more than 20 years. That's why you could pick up the 20 year old car by the seat belt.

Racing seat belts are wider and the racer is exposed to more seat belt area (3" wide, 5 pt.), which is very good in distributing the load to the driver during an impact (maybe a 60g impact). The problem, as I see it, is the SFI spec. indicates that the common material used in "racing" seat belts (Dupont Nylon 6-6) maintains only 60% of its strength after 1 years exposure to radiation, and may only retain 10% of their strength after only 2 years of exposure to the elements. This is what I find unbelievable.

http://www.sfifoundation.com/seatbelt.html

If the SFI spec. required manufacturers to use OEM type material (probably slightly more expensive) the seat belt recertification time could be extended, but the manufacturers would make less $$$ (you always have to follow the $$ trail).

Of course, none of us throw our seat belts out in the sun between races (unless we find out that David Rampy is doing it to gain a competitive advantage, then you would see Sun-dried seat belts for sale for $1000s on Racing Junk), so the 3" wide webbing will likely be stronger than the metal components even after 10 years. Hence the hardware breaking in your 10 year old seat belt test.

As I recall, the webbing failed (or the sewing) in Lee Shephard's crash in 1985, which prompted the seat belt rules being what they are today.

[Randall Klein]

Good info Greenlight, appreciated.....do we know if Sheperds belts/stitching failed or early rumors that they were not in use.....regardless this seatbelt "fee" came shortly after that incident....and we are still paying