Entry Level SS(MOD) rules proposed

[Pvt Parts]

Originally Posted by randy wilson

Could be right. No lock up converters should be addressed. That being said I ain't too bright on autos, so please explain. And I ain't being smart, I truly want to know. Is an auto better under these circumstances? We've also thought of only allowing clutch cars. I know Comp gives autos a 250# break, and their own index, and I've noticed both classes run realitively close to each other. I realize that's compared to a clutchless, but just my experience, and believe me when I say I realize we never had a Comp type clutch dialed in, but we only gained .06 going to a clutchless.

We've had this discussion before on the phone. Too much to go into here but I'd be happy to go over it with you again. You are right about making large gains when moving to a clutchless with a crappy driver. The real gains are in getting the slippage right to keep the motor at max power. I picked up .13 at my first race with a 288 in C/SM with just the clutch setup. -.45 to -.58

The reality I think you fail to see here is the overall advancement of technology and the related costs. Few people here have raced in a heads up eliminator. You've run comp before so you know what I mean. Your proposals will limit costs somewhat but in the end money will rule even more so than the class based eliminators. The guys who can't keep up will get discouraged and quit and here we are. Fact: Drag racing in any form is very expensive.

[Dave Casey]

Originally Posted by Pvt Parts

My reference was the comparison between the rules for stick and automatic cars.

Restricted clutches = restricted converters (Lock up converters for one, are not addressed)

How is it that a stick shift driver is required to make 4 clutch assisted shifts (Which I've done hundreds of times) and an automatic driver who needs to move a handle once or twice is allowed a chip-assisted auto air shifter? (Rolls eyes)

I realize your honorable intent here but in the end, or perhaps from day one an experienced racer with adequate funding will dominate this class and you'll be right back where you are today with a new, expensive heads up eliminator.

I agree completely, the trans rules are way outa whack between stick and auto, unless you want to put weight on the automatic cars. You are basically giving autos every new thing up to date and sending the stick cars back 20 years

[Ed Carpenter]

No inexpensive trans out there.

G Force 4000+
Jerico 4000+

No ones going to run anything else because it wont last JMO....

[randy wilson]

Thanks guy. But I have not ran Comp, I attempted to get to run comp. Big difference. Ha! I truly do respect any and all opinions, but I must disagree with the fact that the cost would get out of control unless allowed to. The problem in my opinion early in Mod was tech turned a blind eye to discrepancies. I remember running Modified at Bristol in the 80's, and watched a D\EM run and he was clutchless the whole way. No one said a word. I watched several others do the same thing. I thought, "What a joke." Either it's a rule, or it's not in my opinion. Now, if policed tightly, I just don't see how it can get out of control, but I'm willing to listen. Let's break it down a little. Block, around $2,000. heads with the best allowed parts, with rockers,$4,000, intake, even if CFE or Wilson does it. $1,800, pistons, $1,800, best rings, $1,300, crank allowed $1,000, rods, $1,100, oil pan, $1,000, carb, $1,200, spacer, $100, cam, $500, lifters, the best, $1,200, cam gear and chain, the best, $250, Harmonic balancer, $500, water pump, $250, oil pump, $100, distibutor and crank trigger, $500, valve covers, $250, push rods, $500, plus $3,000 misc. That comes to $22,350. Way cheaper then some classes, and most have at least 60% of this stuff laying around. How can it get out of control? Have a very tight rein on the heads, and cost will be down. Plus, you never have to update the heads, and if you hurt one, $500 buys you a bare spare.

[randy wilson]

I agree, those two trans are the only way to go, but many already have them, and they will last a long while. I know me personally, I would rather run a clutch assisted with a 250# wt. break then an auto against a true clutchless, but that's just me.

[randy wilson]

This is directed to Pvr Parts. I may have just had a bad experience with trick clutches, but after spending $3,800 for a small diameter dual disc to replace our McCleod softloc, we had big expectations. The car went from running 5.90's at 119 mph to running 6.20's at 117 mph. We turned every nob on the thing, and if it slipped, it ran 6.20's, if it locked up, it ran 6.20's. Nothing changed. We could have bracket raced it, but it wouldn't get out of it's own way. Went back to single disc, 5.85, 120 MPH. Go figure. I just hated buying things guaranteed to help, that do nothing but kill your momentum. And no we never tried a different brand. If a mule kicks you twice it's your own damn fault. And I will not bad mouth the clutch company. Many are successful with it.

[joespanova]

Originally Posted by randy wilson

This is directed to Pvr Parts. I may have just had a bad experience with trick clutches, but after spending $3,800 for a small diameter dual disc to replace our McCleod softloc, we had big expectations. The car went from running 5.90's at 119 mph to running 6.20's at 117 mph. We turned every nob on the thing, and if it slipped, it ran 6.20's, if it locked up, it ran 6.20's. Nothing changed. We could have bracket raced it, but it wouldn't get out of it's own way. Went back to single disc, 5.85, 120 MPH. Go figure. I just hated buying things guaranteed to help, that do nothing but kill your momentum. And no we never tried a different brand. If a mule kicks you twice it's your own damn fault. And I will not bad mouth the clutch company. Many are successful with it.

What was that combo?
My car is an almost perfect fit for your rules proposal.....except I'd have to add a few pounds.........which I wouldn't like.
I have made as many clutch assisted passes as most and working from strickly base is a non issue for me.........I don't understand the problem the other guys are having? I use a 10.5 Soft Lok and Nash .......

[buzzinhalfdozen]

Originally Posted by randy wilson

This is directed to Pvr Parts. I may have just had a bad experience with trick clutches, but after spending $3,800 for a small diameter dual disc to replace our McCleod softloc, we had big expectations. The car went from running 5.90's at 119 mph to running 6.20's at 117 mph. We turned every nob on the thing, and if it slipped, it ran 6.20's, if it locked up, it ran 6.20's. Nothing changed. We could have bracket raced it, but it wouldn't get out of it's own way. Went back to single disc, 5.85, 120 MPH. Go figure. I just hated buying things guaranteed to help, that do nothing but kill your momentum. And no we never tried a different brand. If a mule kicks you twice it's your own damn fault. And I will not bad mouth the clutch company. Many are successful with it.

I noticed one of the rules is no data loggers, When I was running my AX combo and went from a softloc to a really nice fully adjustable single disc i saw a lot of improvements of course without the data logger to assist in tuning I too may have seen no or little gain. This is in no way trying to say a softloc is not a good clutch, it is just like a powerglide is a good trans but compared to a proflite or a turbo XLT they're merely stone age technology (for going fast).

[randy wilson]

The combo I had at the time was a 288 dart Buick in an 08 cobalt. We were thrilled with the MPH, and had high hopes. We weighed 3,040 lbs, G-Force 5 speed clutch less, and actually went from a single 4 to duals and picked up 23 HP. Went out all excited. Next thing I know the cops have a warrant out for our arrest for impersonating a drag racer. I don't see the problem either with a 10.5" clutch min, and single disc. Not if everyone has them. Again, I ain't too bright on the auto deal, and some of these guys claim they would be quicker. Might be, but that actually surprises me.

[randy wilson]

Also, we had a data logger, and we wore that poor engine out, and finally threw in the towel.