Going DEEP....

[Ed Wright]

You love to brag. Maybe it's you that reacts slow, and not the car? LOL

[1320racer]

it ain't bragging if you can back it up and I obviously can and it could be, I'm old but not ancient like you.

What I love to do is dispel hearsay, proving the facts and the truth!!

Oh and my very good nine second car is actually a very good eight second car. That 9.00 @ 149.33 pass is courtesy of my restrictor plate.

[Rod Greene]

Imediately had to go to 28" front tires, lower my 2 step RPM, and find a slower button


And why should automatics be allowed a delay device? I could have a 12inch throw button in my car and it still wont leave until I release the clutch.

[Billy Nees]

Originally Posted by 1320racer

What I love to do is dispel hearsay, proving the facts and the truth!!

Gee, me too! I guess that we're just getting to be like the Lame-stream Media. It depends on what facts and truths we want to prove and how it benefits our personal agenda!

[Dan Fletcher]

I never understood why deep staging was banned either; well, yes I did, see Bill Koski's post.

There is NO DOUBT that it can be nearly impossible to hit the tree leaving on a flash of the bottom in some cars. And "some cars" can even be 10 second cars (probably faster, but I can't speak to that). Case in point, my '69 F/SA car and the new Copo. Neither hits the tree great, I'm always on the "turned up" end of adjustment, often taking bumps. Conversely, the K/SA wagon hits the tree like a bitch! Instant rotation. Many times I find myself lowering rpm and tire pressure to keep it green. High 11 second car...go figure...

[James Perrone]

Deep staging is just a crutch just like blocking.Im not good at either .As a driver you have to adjust day to day .Like they say DEEP STAGING IS A CRIME.Cant do it
Go buy a funny car.. Like all knowing Dan said its mental?

[JOE ZOOM]

Originally Posted by Dan Fletcher

I never understood why deep staging was banned either; well, yes I did, see Bill Koski's post.

There is NO DOUBT that it can be nearly impossible to hit the tree leaving on a flash of the bottom in some cars. And "some cars" can even be 10 second cars (probably faster, but I can't speak to that). Case in point, my '69 F/SA car and the new Copo. Neither hits the tree great, I'm always on the "turned up" end of adjustment, often taking bumps. Conversely, the K/SA wagon hits the tree like a bitch! Instant rotation. Many times I find myself lowering rpm and tire pressure to keep it green. High 11 second car...go figure...

Dan.....Thank You......Joe Mocci

[Ed Wright]

Originally Posted by Rod Greene

Imediately had to go to 28" front tires, lower my 2 step RPM, and find a slower button


And why should automatics be allowed a delay device? I could have a 12inch throw button in my car and it still wont leave until I release the clutch.

Rod, you don't have an adjustable stop on or under your clutch pedal? Like about everybody I know uses? Like I used when I raced a stick car?

[Signman]

Bracket racers who are deep staging with 9 second cars are doing it because they are more comfortable.
Most of the psychological advantages were taken away when it became obvious even to blind persons what was going on.

Agree there are some cars / combinations that may not be able to hit the tree but before asking for a rule change every area of the car should be examined to speed up the car the first 12" of the run whether that be up or forward. May have to spend son cash on parts though......

A prominent racer asked me how I hit the tree in an 11 second car, he felt he could not, told him in my car he would have no problem.

[Michael Beard]

The amount of misconceptions here is staggering.

First and foremost, NHRA wanted deep staging gone because of controversy. Too many people didn't understand how the system worked, or you had people trying to take advantage of the system (both deep and shallow drivers), people racing to the starting line, etc. It was convenient for NHRA to have a show vote.

You don't think it was because deep staging makes your ET show slower? You can run faster than the clocks show?

No. It is about reaction time. If you are deep staging, your ET will be slower. If you are deep staging, you cannot magically decide to run your shallow-staged ET in the middle of a run. Obviously if a deep car shallow stages, it will pick up ET, but the driver better be able to hit the tree. There's a bazillion ways to hide ET. Deep staging isn't "hiding" anything. It is completely transparent, predictable, and out in the open.

What is right about some cars being able to actually break out, and not show it?

This isn't Comp Eliminator. Except in heads-up runs, S/SS cars have dial-ins on them, in which case any car can be able to break out. Deep staging is completely irrelevant.

The vast majority of cars can not get a green light that way.

There is a MASSIVE amount of difference in potential rollout when you consider the difference in human reaction time, vehicle reaction time, and timing systems. Some people have a preferred "spot" .03-.04 different than other drivers. Drivers can also make slight adjustments in how they look at the tree, whether it be closing one eye, sunglasses, or blocking the tree (which is worth .03 just by itself). Vehicles can have a huge difference in rollout depending on tires, rpm, ignition timing, gear, converter, shocks, and other suspension, in addition to whether the car drives through the beams or snaps the tire up out of the beam. Additionally, there can be as much as .06 difference between a fiber optic Compulink and a TSI with a certain style of LED bulbs.

I have driven two different cars that had the same 60', ET, and MPH that reacted over a tenth different. I have raced at two different tracks on the same day whose rollouts were .050 different. I have made adjustments to the car that have slowed the rollout .030, other adjustments worth .02, and others worth .012, all of which could be compounded.

They don't make buttons THAT slow. LOL

The Just-N-Time button has a solid .100 or more available in it, in addition to the wide variety of variables noted above.

In the end I found a way (mentally and mechanically ) to adapt and found you could hit the tree

You need to define "hitting the tree". I "can" hit the tree shallow in the Turismo leaving off the second bulb going out, BUT my window of variance is *much* tighter when deep staging, and I'm much more consistent. With today's level of competition, .030's is no longer considered "hitting the tree". If I'm in the .020's, I'm making adjustments to tighten it up. That's what it takes to be truly competitive these days. While a slow car "may" be able to hit the tree, it's like moving the target further away at a gun range. The accuracy and consistency suffers. It's bad enough that slower cars aren't as consistent or as easy to drive the finish line with. If you continually add handicaps... well, it's no wonder there are so few in competition now.