Stocker Cylinder Heads....

[james schaechter]

Great Discussion. I it is good to have different viewpoints here for sure. I sure don't have all the answers. Maybe some suggestions for any changes that can help with compliance, whether it is a rule change or official guidance, enforcement, etc.

[Phillip marvetz]

Originally Posted by dean feiock

you just sent a chill down the spine of every head porter that offers cover up services.

lol.

[Pat Cook]

Vinny Boobozolou......that some funny **** stuff!!

[Lew Silverman]

Originally Posted by Wade_Owens

The head rules arent what's in the rulebook. Several engine builders have been told 1 thing and the tech officials something else. Tech's interpretations of the gray areas can be different and judgement calls vary from division to division.

There is a big difference between a stock head and a Stock Eliminator legal head. The legal bowl cut drastically changes the appearance, and its not mentioned in the rules.

CYLINDER HEADS
Must be correct casting number for year and horsepower claimed,
per NHRA Technical Bulletins or NHRA accepted. Porting,
polishing, welding, epoxying and acid-porting prohibited.
Combustion-chamber modifications prohibited. Cylinder heads are
additionally restricted in that they must retain original-size valves at
original angles +/- 1 degree and must be able to hold original
cylinder-head volume per NHRA Specifications. Runner volumes
may not exceed the current Super Stock cylinder-head volumes as
listed on www.NHRARacer.com. Regardless of the poured volume
measurement, any modifications to intake or exhaust runners
prohibited. Any evidence of modifications from the original castings
will be grounds for disqualifications as determined by NHRA in
NHRA’s sole and absolute discretion. Any aftermarket steel valve
permitted, must retain stock head and stem diameters. Only
engines OEM-equipped with sodium-filled valves may use sodium filled
replacement valves. Titanium prohibited. Hardened keepers
permitted. Lash caps prohibited. Valve-diameter tolerance: +.005-
inch or -.015-inch from NHRA Specs. The following are prohibited:
spark-plug adapters; cylinder-head studs; any grinding in ports or
combustion chambers; removal of any flashing's; sandblasting or
any other modification to cylinder head; any film coating of intake
and exhaust runners; any film coating of combustion chamber.
Runners and combustion chamber must retain OEM appearance.
Final acceptance as determined by NHRA in NHRA’s sole and
absolute discretion. Intake side of head may not be cut into any part
of valve cover bolt holes. Heat riser passage may be blocked from
intake manifold side of cylinder head. Blocking passage down in
valve pocket prohibited. The following are permitted: polylocks, jam
nuts, screw-in larger-diameter rocker studs or pinned studs, bronzewall
valve guides. Valve spring umbrellas optional. Cylinder head
may have all of the seats replaced. Any valve job permitted,O-ringing
prohibited. Exhaust plates prohibited.

We need the rulebook updated and clarified, please.

Wade

"Integrity is doing the right thing even when no one is looking".

The rules are pretty specific - "Any evidence of modifications from the original castings will be grounds for disqualifications as determined by NHRA in NHRA’s sole and absolute discretion." "Regardless of the poured volume measurement, any modifications to intake or exhaust runners prohibited."

That is the "standard". When that rule is not enforced it establishes a new "standard".

So we are left with a quandary - there are more than a few who have "bent the rules" to their own advantage and have gotten away with it and the rest of us who read the rules and abide by them. Are the rules unenforceable? Maybe. And if so, do we need a new "anything-goes-rule" so everyone gets to play on a level field? What other choices do we have?

Lew

[ss wannabee]

Don't like the mention of aluminum...unless it was OEM-equipped....Just my .02.....
Yeah, I know we have the "replacements" today and all that...but across the board?

Jim, no disrespect to you and your operation...you've done well over the years and your hard work shows it....

But I've always felt if a certain combo had pieces that were tough to find or too much $$$$...you either hung in there or "bailed-out" and did something else....

Guess an argument could be made that some guys have the aluminum and some don't...hope I'm not starting something! And as far as easier to work on....yes...BUT????

A move like that...IMHO...would further "tarnish" the term "STOCK"...

I'm getting out here as the Family is taking me out for Breakfast....Would somebody out there please tell Ed O'Brien "Happy Fathers' Day!"

And a 'Happy Fathers' Day' to you gentlemen as well.........LET'S fix this BEFORE it's broke....FOR GOOD!!!!!!!!

[X-TECH MAN]

As much as I didnt want to post again I was talked into this response by a few. Many of you know who I am and how many years I spent with IHRA but only 2 years with NHRA back in the rarly 70's. NHRA "WILL NOT" ever change their inspection process until many of the current honchos go away. I sat down with Len Imbrigno (remember him) approx 12 years ago at the PRI show in Indy to talk about this very subject. I had samples and told all, plus showed all and who and which shops was doing what from my time working with IHRA and the US Class Nationals for Alex D. The meeting which was approved by both NHRA and IHRA at that time the meeting went no place. It was a waste of my time. I opened Len's eyes and he passed on the info to Calif. but it wasnt to long after this meeting that he left NHRA. He tried hard but to no avail to get the porting, acid and media blasting stopped which has gone on for many many years. Todays racer and engine shops that use these type parts have no morals. The want to win and be the "Big Dog" at everyone elses expense. This is exactly why S/S is allowed ported heads today. I saw my first set of bogus heads on a North Carolina Camaro back in 1983 or 1984 when I had taken a break from tech duties to enjoy life. Its been going on a very long time. I returned to IHRA and tried to stop ported heads without any luck. The game playing continued so I gave up. Why bother? The rules are to general and people with the money are all law suit crazy and it scared NHRA and IHRA. The problem is not with the tech guys in NHRA nor IHRA. The problem is with NHRA its self and the lack of desire to enforce the rule they already have. Most of the tech people have "been there and done that" as they say and they know what they are looking at but their hands are tied most of the time. Cut the head off the "snake" and it will die. I still consider the tech guys I have met and know my friends and hope this post is not taken in the wrong way. All I can say to Wade is lots of luck !

[Wade_Owens]

Terry, I agree with you. As Jim S. said, when you see guys pick up 2/10th's and they are telling people what they done, AND their engine builder told them its now ok, where does that leave us? I want the 2/10th gain also, but, with Tech departments blessing. This is no secret, EVERYONE at the track knows. Engine and cylinder head guys from East to West are telling and selling. The grass roots tech guys know this is not aimed at them.

I don't care either way, just be consistent and tell us. Until they do, I'll continue to run my barn legal heads. You know, the ones that had too much valve lift

Wade

[SSDiv6]

Originally Posted by Wade_Owens

Terry, I agree with you. As Jim S. said, when you see guys pick up 2/10th's and they are telling people what they done, AND their engine builder told them its now ok, where does that leave us? I want the 2/10th gain also, but, with Tech departments blessing. This is no secret, EVERYONE at the track knows. Engine and cylinder head guys from East to West are telling and selling. The grass roots tech guys know this is not aimed at them.

I don't care either way, just be consistent and tell us. Until they do, I'll continue to run my barn legal heads. You know, the ones that had too much valve lift

Wade

Wade,
I do not know how long you have been racing Stock Eliminator, nevertheless, this issue has been beat to death for many years.

As far as I can recall throughout the years when I was first exposed to Stock and Super Stock classes by my uncle, it has been going on since the early 1970's. Therefore, for over 40 years, NHRA has not addressed this issue, has liberalized the rules and turned away their heads. Therefore, do not expect all the suddenly for NHRA to start doing the oversight you and others want because I believe it will never happen.

Just do a search in past postings in this site and this subject has come up many times.

As a matter of fact, years ago I was witness to a Tech Director telling racers that if they wanted to go fast, to contact certain specific cylinder head builders so they could go faster. I happened to know those builders and was familiar with the work they did.

Also, I believe Alan's previous statement about many older castings becoming hard to come by and being replaced by aluminum ones is not only a statement, but a prediction.

You are only addressing one issue; there are other areas that have allowed gains in many makes of engines, and have benefited from allowances that have been permitted. One of those areas are pistons.

[SS Engine Guy]

First, it isn't unusual to spend upwards of 5k on a set of chev. stocker heads. At $100.00 per hour thats 50 man hours. Flow 5 to 20 pairs of castings. Then flow the best 3 or 4 with different valve configurations/seats/seat cuts and seat finishes. Then flow the best 2 or 3 with several different lift characteristics with velocity probes and sometimes wet flow the best 2 with 3 to 5 manifolds comparing the exhaust with a couple different exhaust tube sizes and length of bends just out of the exhaust ports. You will find heads that have flow figures where you need them that will somtimes be 30 to 40% different (better) from the best set to the worst. Being able to do this isn't something that can be learned in a week and there are only a very few left that can or will actually do this type of work on stock (legal and never touch a port or chamber) cylinder heads.
With that said, porting (illegal) a stock cylinder head is easy. And covering it up is easy. And no, it can not be detected by dyes, sprays, chem tests or otherwise when the person doing the welding/grinding/spraying/blasting knows a little about what he is trying to accomplish.What you need to know is that port shape is way more important than port size. Here is where the really big cost comes in. And atomization in the port is what makes the most hp. Velocity is more important than total flow in most cases and this has to start as soon as the valve starts to open and continue as completely as possible till when the valve closes. Some of the work in shaping a port is not as drastic as some might think and the changes can be hard to detect if time is spent trying to keep the port (looking) stock. This is an exact science that is still evolving as newer and newer technologys are available. With port shape analysis you are very likely going to spend way more than 5k on a set of stocker heads.
Here comes the bad part (if running illegal isn't bad enough). The rulebook in the santioning bodies used to say in SS that zero modifications were allowed in the combustion chamber. I was told that I could not even glassbead a combustion chamber to clean it as doing so could "smooth" the combustion chamber in a way that would be considered illegal. Also I was told that agressive use of a wire wheel to clean could get me tossed. Yet at the same time, I am taking apart pieces from the biggest names in SS builders that had the intake valves unshrouded as much as .200 thou., edges rounded off, obvious grinding and reshaping in the chambers, plug locations moved with absolutely little or no regard to attempt to cover any of this up. Some of these freshen-ups were record holders that I had personally watched go thru tech. Winners in class. Div. and Nat. winners, etc. I turned down countless jobs after taking this stuff apart because I didn't want my name attached to it. Then one fine day, about 3 years later, the combustion chamber rule gets changed. Making very few of these heads legal, by the way. And I still see obvious welding in the chambers even though the new chamber rule says thats not allowed. Still plug locations moved.
Wade, I have no idea how you are supposed to find out what is actually "legal" at the time as all I have ever been told was NO. Only to see what I wasn't allowed to do go thru tech with flying colors and if a techman ever questioned it he was over ruled.
Sorry for the long post but this is a really sore spot for me. My customers can and do run with the best in their classes-----legally. Fortunately, doing stuff illegal also means that you will screw your customer base also in most cases. You can't imagine the 28-40k junk that I have had in my shop. On a positive note, there are still some really fine engine builders out there that are fast and take pride in their legal work.

[SSDiv6]

X2

I recall very well the combustion chamber issue in which some Chevy cylinder heads were unshrouded when using the 2.02" intake valve. Some cars were caught with the modification and soon the rules were changed to allow the modification.