Intermittent no start condition

John Nechiporchik · 09-16-2013, 08:52 AM

I have an intermittent no start condition on my 98 Pontiac Stocker, 350 with Accell Calmap ECU. Randomly, the car will crank but not start. It might start 10 times in a row then the 11th. time ....crank, no start. Let it sit for a few minutes(5-10)...and it fires right up.
Recently, had a battery go bad....replaced it. The only other change was to the fuel. At Martin, had to switch to Sunoco as VP was not available.
Because it is intermittent, I have not been able to determine if this condition is fuel or ignition related. It has an MSD Digital 7.
Happened yesterday in the staging lanes at a test /tune.....waited about 5 minutes and it fired right up.

Anyone experience anything like this?

Thanks.

Dave Noll · 09-16-2013, 12:33 PM

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countrypuppy4865 · 09-16-2013, 01:52 PM

Get a spark tester to verify that you have fire. If no fire, suspect optispark or ignition module on coil. If fire is present and it won't start, try pouring a little gas into the intake through the throttle body opening. If it starts when pouring gas (not the same gas that you recently changed to), it will be a fuel problem. It could possibly be bad injectors, or it could be fuel contamination. Just a few ideas.

John Nechiporchik · 09-16-2013, 02:49 PM

Thanks for the ideas. What fails on the optispark? I've seen references to this before as a problem area.

Thanks

Steve Williams · 09-16-2013, 04:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by John Nechiporchik

Thanks for the ideas. What fails on the optispark? I've seen references to this before as a problem area.

Thanks

The optical sensor gets knocked out usually by a foreign substance. Oil, water. A quick continuity check of the harness should be done. Manipulate the wires as you do this. They can and do go bad as well.

John Nechiporchik · 09-16-2013, 05:45 PM

This thing has an MSD Distributor Cap,coil (HVC2) and crank trigger.

buzzinhalfdozen · 09-17-2013, 10:23 AM

Yeah quick search looks like it does have the LED, hopefully it's in a position that you can see it. Without the crank input I'd imagine you will have neither spark or fuel activity. As SS3011 stated your set up MAY require a cam sync input to operate again not knowing your system it is merely a guess,any way of finding out how it's set up? Do you know who installed and set up the system, that would answer alot of questions. Again IMO I'd start by verifying the LED is blinking first.Good luck. Joe

Rich Biebel · 09-17-2013, 11:01 AM

I ran my LT-1 with an Accel gen VII and a crank trigger.

I used an MSD 7al2 until it failed and than an MSD Digital 6

I did not send the crank trigger into the Accel ECU..

I ran it just like any std non efi engine. Timing was locked and set at the trigger.

I felt since I was new at this ....it was simpler and it was...

I gutted a stock distributer and added an MSD cap and rotor...

So my fuel pump and ignition were basically outside of the ECU...

The injectors of course have to run for the engine to start...

The tests Rob said to do should reveal the problem.....but you have to get it to NOT start first....

A cam sync sensor as I recall was only needed if your were running your EFI as a sequential firing order.....

P.S. I could not get my car to even start the first time I tried......wiring issue. ECU to MSD....

John Nechiporchik · 09-17-2013, 11:14 AM

Spoke with the previous owner/builder.
The Accell Calmap only controls the fuel map. The other functions(timing, rev limiters etc) are managed thru the MSD box. Rich, this appears to be similiar to your set-up.

I wiil get a spark tester and noid light tonight and perform the tests that Rob indicated.
Is there a universal noid light or do I need to buy the kit that has injector brand specific lights? I believe my injectors are Bosch.

buzzinhalfdozen · 09-17-2013, 11:24 AM

Ok, so basically the MSD is sending a tach signal to your EFI which it needs to indicate that in fact the engine is running. So you're still back to the basics, which can be indicated by a blinking LED, no blink, no start. I prefer the noid lights with a short pigtail on them so I can position it for easy viewing while cranking, if you have a helper this is a non issue. Look at your injector connector and get a light with similar terminals, as they've made a few different types over the years, there are some "universal" ones to chose from.Joe

09-16-2013, 08:52 AM	#1
John Nechiporchik Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Grosse Ile Mi. Posts: 316 Likes: 84 Liked 13 Times in 7 Posts	Intermittent no start condition I have an intermittent no start condition on my 98 Pontiac Stocker, 350 with Accell Calmap ECU. Randomly, the car will crank but not start. It might start 10 times in a row then the 11th. time ....crank, no start. Let it sit for a few minutes(5-10)...and it fires right up. Recently, had a battery go bad....replaced it. The only other change was to the fuel. At Martin, had to switch to Sunoco as VP was not available. Because it is intermittent, I have not been able to determine if this condition is fuel or ignition related. It has an MSD Digital 7. Happened yesterday in the staging lanes at a test /tune.....waited about 5 minutes and it fired right up. Anyone experience anything like this? Thanks.

09-16-2013, 12:33 PM	#2
Dave Noll Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Div. 6, Eastern, WA Posts: 710 Likes: 2,671 Liked 240 Times in 112 Posts	Re: Intermittent no start condition ... __________________ Dave Noll, EF/S ,?/SA 6526 Last edited by Dave Noll; 10-16-2013 at 05:06 PM.

09-16-2013, 01:52 PM	#3
countrypuppy4865 Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Donaldsonville, LA Posts: 980 Likes: 17 Liked 228 Times in 70 Posts	Re: Intermittent no start condition Get a spark tester to verify that you have fire. If no fire, suspect optispark or ignition module on coil. If fire is present and it won't start, try pouring a little gas into the intake through the throttle body opening. If it starts when pouring gas (not the same gas that you recently changed to), it will be a fuel problem. It could possibly be bad injectors, or it could be fuel contamination. Just a few ideas. __________________ Jimmy "Cooter" Hidalgo, Jr. 4865 E/SA '04 GTO 4865 SS/GA '99 Firebird

09-16-2013, 02:49 PM	#4
John Nechiporchik Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Grosse Ile Mi. Posts: 316 Likes: 84 Liked 13 Times in 7 Posts	Re: Intermittent no start condition Thanks for the ideas. What fails on the optispark? I've seen references to this before as a problem area. Thanks

09-16-2013, 05:45 PM	#6
John Nechiporchik Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Grosse Ile Mi. Posts: 316 Likes: 84 Liked 13 Times in 7 Posts	Re: Intermittent no start condition This thing has an MSD Distributor Cap,coil (HVC2) and crank trigger.

09-17-2013, 10:23 AM	#7
buzzinhalfdozen Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Bellevue Ohio Posts: 984 Likes: 0 Liked 11 Times in 8 Posts	Re: Intermittent no start condition Yeah quick search looks like it does have the LED, hopefully it's in a position that you can see it. Without the crank input I'd imagine you will have neither spark or fuel activity. As SS3011 stated your set up MAY require a cam sync input to operate again not knowing your system it is merely a guess,any way of finding out how it's set up? Do you know who installed and set up the system, that would answer alot of questions. Again IMO I'd start by verifying the LED is blinking first.Good luck. Joe __________________ Joe Buchanan SS/BX 3117 Last edited by buzzinhalfdozen; 09-17-2013 at 10:28 AM.

09-17-2013, 11:01 AM	#8
Rich Biebel VIP Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Northern New Jersey suburbs Posts: 2,314 Likes: 25 Liked 544 Times in 213 Posts	Re: Intermittent no start condition I ran my LT-1 with an Accel gen VII and a crank trigger. I used an MSD 7al2 until it failed and than an MSD Digital 6 I did not send the crank trigger into the Accel ECU.. I ran it just like any std non efi engine. Timing was locked and set at the trigger. I felt since I was new at this ....it was simpler and it was... I gutted a stock distributer and added an MSD cap and rotor... So my fuel pump and ignition were basically outside of the ECU... The injectors of course have to run for the engine to start... The tests Rob said to do should reveal the problem.....but you have to get it to NOT start first.... A cam sync sensor as I recall was only needed if your were running your EFI as a sequential firing order..... P.S. I could not get my car to even start the first time I tried......wiring issue. ECU to MSD.... __________________ Rich Biebel S/C 1479 Stock 147R Last edited by Rich Biebel; 09-17-2013 at 11:11 AM.

09-17-2013, 11:14 AM	#9
John Nechiporchik Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Grosse Ile Mi. Posts: 316 Likes: 84 Liked 13 Times in 7 Posts	Re: Intermittent no start condition Spoke with the previous owner/builder. The Accell Calmap only controls the fuel map. The other functions(timing, rev limiters etc) are managed thru the MSD box. Rich, this appears to be similiar to your set-up. I wiil get a spark tester and noid light tonight and perform the tests that Rob indicated. Is there a universal noid light or do I need to buy the kit that has injector brand specific lights? I believe my injectors are Bosch.

09-17-2013, 11:24 AM	#10
buzzinhalfdozen Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Bellevue Ohio Posts: 984 Likes: 0 Liked 11 Times in 8 Posts	Re: Intermittent no start condition Ok, so basically the MSD is sending a tach signal to your EFI which it needs to indicate that in fact the engine is running. So you're still back to the basics, which can be indicated by a blinking LED, no blink, no start. I prefer the noid lights with a short pigtail on them so I can position it for easy viewing while cranking, if you have a helper this is a non issue. Look at your injector connector and get a light with similar terminals, as they've made a few different types over the years, there are some "universal" ones to chose from.Joe __________________ Joe Buchanan SS/BX 3117