Stock Suggestion # 1

[Jeff Teuton]

I propose this on the thought of speeding up the old cars, not slowing down the new cars. I would take 10% HP off all combos and keep the shipping weights where they are. Cars 2007 and older. It appears the LS1 needs something less than 10%. Indexes stay the same. The assumption is AHFS in it's present form or similar is here to stay. I can't download the Class Guides (new computer and over my grade level) or I would post some examples. Maybe some of you could do that for your combo or one you are familiar. How about the 396 cars. There are a bunch of them. A 3400 lb shipping weight car currently @ 400 hp is a B/S car @ 8.5. The same car @ 360 which is less the 10% would have a factor of 9.44 or C/S almost D/S. Somewhere around 2 classes. Just a thought, but I have been proposing this for a few years. Who knows, might find an ear out there.

[james schaechter]

Originally Posted by Jeff Teuton

I propose this on the thought of speeding up the old cars, not slowing down the new cars. I would take 10% HP off all combos and keep the shipping weights where they are. Cars 2007 and older. It appears the LS1 needs something less than 10%. Indexes stay the same. The assumption is AHFS in it's present form or similar is here to stay. I can't download the Class Guides (new computer and over my grade level) or I would post some examples. Maybe some of you could do that for your combo or one you are familiar. How about the 396 cars. There are a bunch of them. A 3400 lb shipping weight car currently @ 400 hp is a B/S car @ 8.5. The same car @ 360 which is less the 10% would have a factor of 9.44 or C/S almost D/S. Somewhere around 2 classes. Just a thought, but I have been proposing this for a few years. Who knows, might find an ear out there.

There you go Jeff ! Thoughtful and positive ideas! And I don't get choked either! Lol! Now of only the decision makers can have an open discussion......

[Chuck Rayburn]

Jeff,
You know, what we have here is a "give and take" situation. I have an old dinosaur CC/SA hemi. Therefore, I will "take" your very generous offer of a 10% hp reduction. Now "give" me something in return. I propose a somewhat simpler solution and it will only cost you 2008 and newer cars 20 or so dollars for new vinyl lettering.
You guys can't run heads up with us any longer...you're 4 tenths and 10 mph faster, on the average over the last few years.
What do you think about FX/A for cars in guide at 5.5 to 6.0 with an index of 9.7sec., FX/B for 6.01 to 6.5 index at 9.9, FX/C for 6.51 to 7.0 index at 10.1, FX/D for 7.01 to 7.5 index at 10.3...so on down to FX/G or so?
In other words...don't go away mad from the "old" dinosaur classes...just go away, please

Chuck

[FireSale]

Originally Posted by Chuck Rayburn

Jeff,
You know, what we have here is a "give and take" situation. I have an old dinosaur CC/SA hemi. Therefore, I will "take" your very generous offer of a 10% hp reduction. Now "give" me something in return. I propose a somewhat simpler solution and it will only cost you 2008 and newer cars 20 or so dollars for new vinyl lettering.
You guys can't run heads up with us any longer...you're 4 tenths and 10 mph faster, on the average over the last few years.
What do you think about FX/A for cars in guide at 5.5 to 6.0 with an index of 9.7sec., FX/B for 6.01 to 6.5 index at 9.9, FX/C for 6.51 to 7.0 index at 10.1, FX/D for 7.01 to 7.5 index at 10.3...so on down to FX/G or so?
In other words...don't go away mad from the "old" dinosaur classes...just go away, please

Chuck

If I understand Jeff's math right, you wouldn't be running heads up with cars that you can't compete with anymore. His adjustment in factoring would class you down and you would run heads up against newer cars that you can match up with.

Dale

[Pedigo Perf]

Where is the 800 foot mark? That is the new finish line under this scenario. Old cars can't change their tail lights and get a new combo with a fresh factor.

Safe to say a 396/400 Camaro makes north of 600 HP with a Wikle or Tilburg engine and that is about 1.5 Horsepower per cube. This is with a dual plane intake, Holley 780 Vac secondary carb, solid lifter .520 lift cam and heavy internal organs. This combo is factored at roughly 1 HP per cube.

Now advance forward to 2014 and look at the engine design! 2.0 HP per cube easily attainable with this design so how do you justify starting a 396 COPO out at 390 HP when it runs past 800 HP easily?

I think starting out these highly tuned race engine stockers at about 1.25 HP per cubic inch would be a pretty fair place to start.

[ALMACK]

I like the 10% hp reduction idea.

[Qwikpony]

Teuton and Rayburn are exactly right. Take power off of the old engine combos. We all know that increased horsepower ratings=heavier cars=more broken parts=LESS money to race with. The re-emergence of the "FI" classes is the way to go. The LS-1s could then run in C,D,E "FI" to avoid the supercharged cars and crate engine combos. We should thank the BIG 3 for putting their money back into our classes and the new cars are flat out awesome. But they are a little to radical to compete "heads up" with the 60s and 70s musclecars. We should race apples and apples "heads up" and apples and oranges with shoe polish.

[SS Engine Guy]

Ok, here is the edit for easy understanding. Fix the problem.
- problem: factory experimental cars being placed in Stock and S/S
- solution: place them where they actually belong which Is Comp in some cases and SS in others. And even when placed in SS they will have to be factored with in reason.

- clarification on factoring: if you took a 427 Chev. running legal under current super stock rules and added a much better race only head, 14-15 to 1 compression, 1000 cfm of pure airflow(not air and fuel), fuel and timing control in milliseconds. Surely it wouldn't be rated the same or lower than before those add ons.

[Qwikpony]

Your point illustrates why Rayburn has the best solution. If NHRA is going to take the time to reclassify the new cars, they could do the same thing and still keep them is Stock. The supercharged cars are reflective of what can be bought from the dealer (Shelby GT500 and/or Super Snake conversion from Shelby) even though they are making big power. NHRA could also consider putting the blower cars into SS and leaving the N/A cars in their own class(in Stock) so manufacturers still have an arena to showcase their product. They only problem with taking power off of the old combos is that a 10% reduction could result in the removal of too much ballast thus creating traction problems on the mostly marginal tracks we race on. I doubt the A,B,C cars want to have to worry about spinning.

[Lee Valentine]

Take the horsepower off , I'll worry about hooking it.