Going DEEP....

[Ed Wright]

I had to go to the Just-N-Time button. Best button I have found, for me.

I did not find a tenth in it.

I found the black (weakest/slowest) spring to not repeat very well for me. Probably just me.
I use the next slowest (orange?) spring. I do have a couple of spacers on it.

I could not get the previous popular button with spacers slow enough, even modified a couple. Could not get there.

I'm 72 years old and have to stage shallow and use a blinder also to get a green light. I'm not sure a young guy could just step in my car and get a green light. I know it ain't my lightening fast 72 year old reflexes. It has to be the car.

[Rich Biebel]

Thanks Michael Beard for your post as their was way too much incorrect stuff being thrown out here....


Deep staging was used by a few racers well know here on the east coast. And they won a ton of $$$ and races doing it....

LONG before any of us knew why or how they could do this successfully..

I can remember racing one of the best a few times and since I close one eye and blocked the other side of the tree with my free hand.....the last thing I saw was the top light going out on the other side.......It was always a challenge wondering why they were deep staging but I ignored it and focused on what I was doing....

Deep staging WAS allowed in S/G and S/ST at the beginning of those categories......We all learned very quickly how much that changed your RT and ET.....and also other things in a car that had a big effect on RT's...

[Mark Yacavone]

Thank you ,Michael

I didn't want to get too technical in my early replies.

Dan touched on something, I believe.

It was asked why some of the faster bracket cars would want to deep stage.
If they are all the way in it, ramped up, on the converter and can only hit .030 lights at a certain track due to variables, as Michael mentioned,...there's nowhere to go from there. If they're deep, they can adjust the RPM and put it exactly where they feel comfortable.

[Jepperson]

As a bracket racer, I would love to see deep staging return to NHRA Sportsman. Makes Stock Eliminator much more attractive for bracket racers. Id love to give Stock a try, but no way I could afford a lower class car. My uncle Jerrys SS/BA ride 60s 1.25-1.30 and it's a struggle to hit the bottom yellow in it.

[JOE ZOOM]

Originally Posted by Michael Beard

The amount of misconceptions here is staggering.

First and foremost, NHRA wanted deep staging gone because of controversy. Too many people didn't understand how the system worked, or you had people trying to take advantage of the system (both deep and shallow drivers), people racing to the starting line, etc. It was convenient for NHRA to have a show vote.



No. It is about reaction time. If you are deep staging, your ET will be slower. If you are deep staging, you cannot magically decide to run your shallow-staged ET in the middle of a run. Obviously if a deep car shallow stages, it will pick up ET, but the driver better be able to hit the tree. There's a bazillion ways to hide ET. Deep staging isn't "hiding" anything. It is completely transparent, predictable, and out in the open.



This isn't Comp Eliminator. Except in heads-up runs, S/SS cars have dial-ins on them, in which case any car can be able to break out. Deep staging is completely irrelevant.



There is a MASSIVE amount of difference in potential rollout when you consider the difference in human reaction time, vehicle reaction time, and timing systems. Some people have a preferred "spot" .03-.04 different than other drivers. Drivers can also make slight adjustments in how they look at the tree, whether it be closing one eye, sunglasses, or blocking the tree (which is worth .03 just by itself). Vehicles can have a huge difference in rollout depending on tires, rpm, ignition timing, gear, converter, shocks, and other suspension, in addition to whether the car drives through the beams or snaps the tire up out of the beam. Additionally, there can be as much as .06 difference between a fiber optic Compulink and a TSI with a certain style of LED bulbs.

I have driven two different cars that had the same 60', ET, and MPH that reacted over a tenth different. I have raced at two different tracks on the same day whose rollouts were .050 different. I have made adjustments to the car that have slowed the rollout .030, other adjustments worth .02, and others worth .012, all of which could be compounded.



The Just-N-Time button has a solid .100 or more available in it, in addition to the wide variety of variables noted above.



You need to define "hitting the tree". I "can" hit the tree shallow in the Turismo leaving off the second bulb going out, BUT my window of variance is *much* tighter when deep staging, and I'm much more consistent. With today's level of competition, .030's is no longer considered "hitting the tree". If I'm in the .020's, I'm making adjustments to tighten it up. That's what it takes to be truly competitive these days. While a slow car "may" be able to hit the tree, it's like moving the target further away at a gun range. The accuracy and consistency suffers. It's bad enough that slower cars aren't as consistent or as easy to drive the finish line with. If you continually add handicaps... well, it's no wonder there are so few in competition now.

Nice Job Mike....Thanks..Joe Mocci

[Mepprecht]

I have a time card from the summer nationals this year, I accidentally went deep.... On the reaction time it just says DEEP. It was R3.

[Mark Yacavone]

Originally Posted by Mepprecht

I have a time card from the summer nationals this year, I accidentally went deep.... On the reaction time it just says DEEP. It was R3.

Tree was already started so it didn't go red. The deep , no r/t must be part of that software package..Of course, it's shut off for the Pros.

[Mepprecht]

Originally Posted by Mark Yacavone

Tree was already started so it didn't go red. The deep , no r/t must be part of that software package..Of course, it's shut off for the Pros.

It went red as soon as I bumped it in deep.

[Mark Yacavone]

Originally Posted by Mepprecht

It went red as soon as I bumped it in deep.

Oh.. that's the way it works then, unfortunately.

Once the tree starts, you could keep rolling in and it wouldn't go red..obviously .

[Tim Ellis]

I say let's get NHRA to allow it. It's true many slower reacting cars can't hit a light shallow. What is it hurting you if the other driver goes deep? Nothing. If you don't think it's fair , go deep too. Or better yet just stage quickly so the slower ( most likely) driver doesn't have time to go in carefully deep. He may still be bumping as his lights are coming down. Been on the bad side of that one.