Oil starvation issues SBC HELP?

[joespanova]

Originally Posted by Fred D Bartoli

Carl
Happened to notice your post about excessive bleed off with cam bearings with (3) holes. I am not a professional engine builder but I do build the motors for our super stock cars. I currently have (3) motors, (1) Dart and (2) bow-tie blks. all (3) blks. have Dura bond bearings with (3) holes. I have not had any issues with them. Just wondering how you are determining excessive bleed off, is there a specific test?. How must bleed off is considered excessive?

Carl seems to be the only one that really cares about this..........

[Chuck Westcott]

Call Tony @ Dart-- Ask Him about Oil restricters recommendations for your block. If your not using any at all your flooding the top end of your .engine and starving the bottom end. Remember Dart blocks have restricters front and rear.

[joespanova]

Originally Posted by Chuck Westcott

Call Tony @ Dart-- Ask Him about Oil restricters recommendations for your block. If your not using any at all your flooding the top end of your .engine and starving the bottom end. Remember Dart blocks have restricters front and rear.

I DID use oil restrictors in my old Gen 1 blocks and had the same oil starvation results.
Even though this block has a different style of restriction ( drilled plug ) I was advised against using them. So I didn't.
But regardless , the result in the Gen 1 block ( with restrictors ) was the same oil stavation issue

[carl hinkson]

Originally Posted by Fred D Bartoli

Carl
Happened to notice your post about excessive bleed off with cam bearings with (3) holes. I am not a professional engine builder but I do build the motors for our super stock cars. I currently have (3) motors, (1) Dart and (2) bow-tie blks. all (3) blks. have Dura bond bearings with (3) holes. I have not had any issues with them. Just wondering how you are determining excessive bleed off, is there a specific test?. How must bleed off is considered excessive?

I machine my own cam bearings and have had alot of calls about this issue. Like I have said prime the engine with the intake off and see how much bleed of there is. Then have the oil at 200 degrees now its even worse. Now add a vacuum pump and now your sucking oil out of every where cam bearings lifter bores ETC.

Some times depending on the journal size and and hosing bore you can have alot of oil clearance and having a cam bearing with oil holes every 120 degrees no matter how they are installed there is one hole near 12:00, Having oils holes form 8:00 to 4:00 is a problem with bleed off.

Richards Maskins called me about what I was doing with my cam bearings and said I was 100% correct but he had to make a bearing that was child proof. Richard said its nothing to see .006 to .008 oil clearance sometimes on cams.

On those blocks I use the GMP-8 drill another hole appox. 3:30 or 4: and groove on the OD of the bearing between the 2 holes.

Lifter bore clearance has to be spot on to much and you bleed off out of the lifter bores and the way the oiling is to the push rods they work off bore clearance to much clearance allows to much oil to the top end.

I machine alot of 55MM cam tunnels and with a 2.165 journal and a bearing with 3 holes you want to talk about bleed off. I had custom cam bearings made with one oil hole and groove one hole lines up with the one in the block and another hole can be machined at appox. 4:00

Spinning an engine 9000 RPM and having aluminum rods which take up alot of space and add alot of windage!!! oil control is a must.

http://www.dura-bondbearing.com/Port...20Bulletin.pdf

http://www.yellowbullet.com/forum/sh...d.php?t=449698

[Ed Wright]

How do you check the gap between the oil pump pickup & The bottom of the pan?
Do not just assume it's correct, and just bolt it together. I have had to cut & re-weld the support on the pickup before to correct it.
You are doing something seriously wrong.

And Carl isn't the only one concerned about the 3 hole cam bearings.

[carl hinkson]

Originally Posted by Chuck Westcott

Call Tony @ Dart-- Ask Him about Oil restricters recommendations for your block. If your not using any at all your flooding the top end of your .engine and starving the bottom end. Remember Dart blocks have restricters front and rear.

The Sportsman blocks are different then the Billet cap blocks, I would not use restrictors with roller lifters as the lifters bore clearance is what allows oil to the push rods, The oil holes are on the side of the lifter and not in the oil band. Restricting oil may burn up the push rods.

[Chuck Westcott]

Originally Posted by carl hinkson

The Sportsman blocks are different then the Billet cap blocks, I would not use restrictors with roller lifters as the lifters bore clearance is what allows oil to the push rods, The oil holes are on the side of the lifter and not in the oil band. Restricting oil many burn up the push rods.

I believe Dart recommends Drilled Restricter plugs in both front and rear .250 hole size. that should allow plenty of pressurized oil flow to the top end and yet adequate pressurized flow to the bottom end.

[joespanova]

Originally Posted by Chuck Westcott

I believe Dart recommends Drilled Restricter plugs in both front and rear .250 hole size. that should allow plenty of pressurized oil flow to the top end and yet adequate pressurized flow to the bottom end.

Like Carl said............the Little M ( sportsman ) only restricts at the rear......similar to a Gen 1 but a different style restrictor.

[joespanova]

Originally Posted by Ed Wright

How do you check the gap between the oil pump pickup & The bottom of the pan?
Do not just assume it's correct, and just bolt it together. I have had to cut & re-weld the support on the pickup before to correct it.
You are doing something seriously wrong.

And Carl isn't the only one concerned about the 3 hole cam bearings.

C' mon Ed.......I realize you dont know me.....but.....
Of course I check it!........either assembly is bolted to cap straight edge to pan rail , same on pan or I use clay...........same way you and everyone else check it.
Let me ask you this........
Tell me about your 8800 plus......... wet sump combo.
And I'm not being sarcastic..........tell me about your best small block wet sump setup , ring pack , comp. , and whether or not you used a vac pump.
I'm all ears. And NO..............I'm not doing something seriously WRONG. Its more like the effect of what I'm doing...........neither right nor wrong..........just an evolution towards a solution . If you follow these posts you'll conclude many engine builders and racers have experienced similar issues with oil problems and found the solutions. Kinda makes ya wonder how guys moved into dry sumps and WHY in the first place many moons ago.
But I know a wet sump will work..............and thats why I asked here , on a Super Stock forum , because I know the RPM ranges are in my wheelhouse and its done everyday. I made a mistake with vac , learned the value of pan and tray design and pumps..................whaddya want me to say?

[carl hinkson]

Originally Posted by Chuck Westcott

I believe Dart recommends Drilled Restricter plugs in both front and rear .250 hole size. that should allow plenty of pressurized oil flow to the top end and yet adequate pressurized flow to the bottom end.

I can tell you now nothing about the oiling of a Dart Little-M Sportsman block and Little-M with billet caps.

Sportsman block you can only restrict in the rear !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!