Interest in Modified? - Page 7

bill dedman · 11-01-2008, 05:12 PM

One of the big problems in communication about this subject is NOMENCLATURE.
A lot of times, two guys will be saying the same thing, or wanting the same thing, but saying something else, because they have the NAMES wrong.
.
Here's what I mean:

Modified Eliminator was an Eliminator "bracket" that was comprised of a variety of different types of cars that ran a variety of different CLASSES. There were Modified Production-CLASSED cars, which were a lot like a Super Stocker with a full-race engine, but the engine and chassis had to come from the same manufacturer (a Ford engine in a Ford body, etc.) Gas Coupe classed cars which were full race engines in any body you wanted, but with a 10-percent engine-setback rule. also ran in MODIFIED ELIMINATOR, Street Roadsters (open cars) with basically the same rules as Gas Coupes (10-percent setback cars) did, too..

Within these individual CLASSES, there were A, B, C, and so-on, depending on pounds per cubic inch.
For example, a B Gas Coupe would have to weigh 9 pounds per cubic inch; a C Gasser would have to weigh 11 pounds per cubic inch, and so-on. They also had separate classes just for 6-cylinder and 4-cyinder cars, And, later on, compact cars like VW's small Toyotas, etc.

So, you had MODIFIED ELIMINATOR made up of a lot of different kinds of cars, among them, MODIFIED PRODUCTION cars.

People get things confused when they start lumping Modified ELIMINATOR, an eliminator bracket, with Modified PRODUCTION, which is a type of class.

I think that has happened here.

So, it looks to me like what the bulk of the people who have posted on this thread really want is a place for MODIFIED PRODUCTION cars to race, not Modified Eliminator cars, which would then exclude the 10-percent setback Gas Coupes and "open" Srreet Roadsters, both of which were a part of Modified ELIMINATOR back in the day when that Eliminator existed.

Insofar as transmission usage goes, there definitely were Modified Production cars at the time that used automatics as well as manual transmissions. I remember watching Earl Britt's record-holding inline six, 1954 Corvette run at Marion, South Dakota with a Turbo Hydro many times, for example.

That doesn't mean you have to allow automatics NOW, with a new set of rules, but don't think tthere weren;t Modified Production classed cars with automatics back then, because there were.

And as far as I can recall, NHRA never had a class called "Factory Modified." I have slept since the '70s, so I surely could be wrong about that, but I really can't remember ever hearnig about a class called "Factory Modifed." "Factory Experimental," yes... There was A/FX, B/FX, and C/FX for cars like the Z-11 '63 Chevys, the '63 421 Pontiac Tempests, and other cars that didn't qualify for Super Stock for whatewver reason (most often, too few were built.)

I think this idea for a new Eliminator (maybe with different CLASS weight breaks, or not) featuring exciting, high winding small blocks, AND, perhaps, heavier Big Block cars, with manual transmissions, is a great idea, but as someone said earlier, in order to ensure a lot of active participation, it MAY be necessary to allow automatics to run, maybe with some sort of incentive for the stick cars.

I hope I didn't insult anyone's intelligence by posting this. I realize that most of you have been around dtag racing for a long time, and probably already knew everything I said... but the confusion that seems to result when somebody says "CLASS" when they mean "ELIMINATOR" causes a lot of mis-understanding in a discussion like this. And I believe it's really unnecessary, when you think about it.

Bring back Modified.... Production!!!!

Bill

Michael Kilduff · 11-01-2008, 05:31 PM

Bill,

The Factory Modified category was an IHRA eliminator back in the '80s and early nineties.

Doyle Evans · 11-01-2008, 05:39 PM

Factory Modified had Garley & Randy Daniels, Nickens,Patterson,Freeman, and a lot of other NHRA heavies. Small block pro stock!

Michael Kilduff · 11-01-2008, 05:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Doyle Evans

Factory Modified had Garley & Randy Daniels, Nickens,Patterson,Freeman, and a lot of other NHRA heavies. Small block pro stock!

True that, and if I recall correctly there were some v-6's in the category though not many.

bill dedman · 11-01-2008, 06:13 PM

Thanks for that info!!! I have never lived where they had IHRA tracks, so I'm really ignorant about IHRA classses. Sorry 'bout that!

Bill

Nitro Joe Jackson · 11-01-2008, 10:59 PM

Hey Ray, remember the great Modified days of Dragway 42, Norwalk, and Marion County?
Every weekend there was over 30 cars at each track, long live the good old days!

Scotty D · 11-02-2008, 12:07 AM

this is a great topic.and let's not forget about dennis mitchell's monza in factory modified.let's not forget that the organization (nhra and ihra) are all governed by their own greed they do away with anything that has fan appeal ala modified production,factory modified and also pro stock truck.all because of crybaby top fuel and funny cars aren't the top draw.the automatic trans manufactuer's spend alot of money in these organization's to get advantages such air shifters and weight breaks and in some cases soft index's and adjutable trans break buttons.why is it fair that a automatic get advantages where the stick shift doesn't get air shifters.if you level the playing field the stick shift will be competitive again.i say build it and they will come,20cars ina race i think will be surpassed by 3times that amountand fans by the thousands.i will be there to spectate and enjoy,until my car is done and i will join in the fun to live the dream of yesterday and tomorrow.long live modified production.

Michael Beard · 11-02-2008, 10:39 AM

Not speaking on his behalf, but I bet that Beaver Bob would make a similar offer... get the cars, and have a race. Beaver Springs Dragway in Pennyslvania already does two Nostalgia Super Stock shows, the Nostalgia Nationals, run in conjunction with the York Reunion, and a separate race called Flashback Friday. Sounds like something that would be up his alley.

Tracy Robbins · 11-02-2008, 01:18 PM

I would venture to say most IHRA modified cars were automatics. For those that want exclusive stick cars they can run w/the "gear jammers" organization. They are basically ex-modified cars and put on a good show. They run predominently in the Carolina's and VA I think. Mike Boyles, James Stoneman, and Rick Nicolau (spell?) to name a few run w/ these guys on a regular basis and I know they had at least 20-25 cars at the Roxboro race last month.

Joey Bohannon · 11-02-2008, 05:08 PM

I would love to see the class revisited, I for one would start building a new car tomorrow if IHRA was to reinstate the class. My Father lost 95% of his interest in racing when IHRA killed the class and My Brother and I would build a car in an instant just because we know how much he thought of that class. Of course we were one of those dreaded G/Econo Dragster groups, and that is what we would build if the class was reborn. Man those were some good times!

Big Charlie's Garage

11-01-2008, 05:12 PM	#61
bill dedman VIP Member Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Conway, AR Posts: 1,739 Likes: 0 Liked 6 Times in 4 Posts	Re: Interest in Modified? One of the big problems in communication about this subject is NOMENCLATURE. A lot of times, two guys will be saying the same thing, or wanting the same thing, but saying something else, because they have the NAMES wrong. . Here's what I mean: Modified Eliminator was an Eliminator "bracket" that was comprised of a variety of different types of cars that ran a variety of different CLASSES. There were Modified Production-CLASSED cars, which were a lot like a Super Stocker with a full-race engine, but the engine and chassis had to come from the same manufacturer (a Ford engine in a Ford body, etc.) Gas Coupe classed cars which were full race engines in any body you wanted, but with a 10-percent engine-setback rule. also ran in MODIFIED ELIMINATOR, Street Roadsters (open cars) with basically the same rules as Gas Coupes (10-percent setback cars) did, too.. Within these individual CLASSES, there were A, B, C, and so-on, depending on pounds per cubic inch. For example, a B Gas Coupe would have to weigh 9 pounds per cubic inch; a C Gasser would have to weigh 11 pounds per cubic inch, and so-on. They also had separate classes just for 6-cylinder and 4-cyinder cars, And, later on, compact cars like VW's small Toyotas, etc. So, you had MODIFIED ELIMINATOR made up of a lot of different kinds of cars, among them, MODIFIED PRODUCTION cars. People get things confused when they start lumping Modified ELIMINATOR, an eliminator bracket, with Modified PRODUCTION, which is a type of class. I think that has happened here. So, it looks to me like what the bulk of the people who have posted on this thread really want is a place for MODIFIED PRODUCTION cars to race, not Modified Eliminator cars, which would then exclude the 10-percent setback Gas Coupes and "open" Srreet Roadsters, both of which were a part of Modified ELIMINATOR back in the day when that Eliminator existed. Insofar as transmission usage goes, there definitely were Modified Production cars at the time that used automatics as well as manual transmissions. I remember watching Earl Britt's record-holding inline six, 1954 Corvette run at Marion, South Dakota with a Turbo Hydro many times, for example. That doesn't mean you have to allow automatics NOW, with a new set of rules, but don't think tthere weren;t Modified Production classed cars with automatics back then, because there were. And as far as I can recall, NHRA never had a class called "Factory Modified." I have slept since the '70s, so I surely could be wrong about that, but I really can't remember ever hearnig about a class called "Factory Modifed." "Factory Experimental," yes... There was A/FX, B/FX, and C/FX for cars like the Z-11 '63 Chevys, the '63 421 Pontiac Tempests, and other cars that didn't qualify for Super Stock for whatewver reason (most often, too few were built.) I think this idea for a new Eliminator (maybe with different CLASS weight breaks, or not) featuring exciting, high winding small blocks, AND, perhaps, heavier Big Block cars, with manual transmissions, is a great idea, but as someone said earlier, in order to ensure a lot of active participation, it MAY be necessary to allow automatics to run, maybe with some sort of incentive for the stick cars. I hope I didn't insult anyone's intelligence by posting this. I realize that most of you have been around dtag racing for a long time, and probably already knew everything I said... but the confusion that seems to result when somebody says "CLASS" when they mean "ELIMINATOR" causes a lot of mis-understanding in a discussion like this. And I believe it's really unnecessary, when you think about it. Bring back Modified.... Production!!!! Bill __________________ Bill Last edited by bill dedman; 11-01-2008 at 05:24 PM.

11-01-2008, 05:31 PM	#62
Michael Kilduff Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Carolina Beach, NC Posts: 281 Likes: 0 Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: Interest in Modified? Bill, The Factory Modified category was an IHRA eliminator back in the '80s and early nineties.

11-01-2008, 05:39 PM	#63
Doyle Evans Member Join Date: Jan 2003 Posts: 141 Likes: 0 Liked 16 Times in 6 Posts	Re: Interest in Modified? Factory Modified had Garley & Randy Daniels, Nickens,Patterson,Freeman, and a lot of other NHRA heavies. Small block pro stock!

11-01-2008, 06:13 PM	#65
bill dedman VIP Member Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Conway, AR Posts: 1,739 Likes: 0 Liked 6 Times in 4 Posts	Re: Interest in Modified? Thanks for that info!!! I have never lived where they had IHRA tracks, so I'm really ignorant about IHRA classses. Sorry 'bout that! Bill __________________ Bill

11-01-2008, 10:59 PM	#66
Nitro Joe Jackson VIP Member Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Loudonville, Ohio or where ever the Nitro Lounge is parked Posts: 2,293 Likes: 58 Liked 67 Times in 19 Posts	Re: Interest in Modified? Hey Ray, remember the great Modified days of Dragway 42, Norwalk, and Marion County? Every weekend there was over 30 cars at each track, long live the good old days! __________________ Nitro Joe Jackson STK 3431 nitrojoe@neo.rr.com

11-02-2008, 12:07 AM	#67
Scotty D Member Join Date: Nov 2007 Posts: 139 Likes: 0 Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: Interest in Modified? this is a great topic.and let's not forget about dennis mitchell's monza in factory modified.let's not forget that the organization (nhra and ihra) are all governed by their own greed they do away with anything that has fan appeal ala modified production,factory modified and also pro stock truck.all because of crybaby top fuel and funny cars aren't the top draw.the automatic trans manufactuer's spend alot of money in these organization's to get advantages such air shifters and weight breaks and in some cases soft index's and adjutable trans break buttons.why is it fair that a automatic get advantages where the stick shift doesn't get air shifters.if you level the playing field the stick shift will be competitive again.i say build it and they will come,20cars ina race i think will be surpassed by 3times that amountand fans by the thousands.i will be there to spectate and enjoy,until my car is done and i will join in the fun to live the dream of yesterday and tomorrow.long live modified production.

11-02-2008, 10:39 AM	#68
Michael Beard VIP Member Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Columbus, OH Posts: 4,060 Likes: 0 Liked 13 Times in 9 Posts	Re: Interest in Modified? Not speaking on his behalf, but I bet that Beaver Bob would make a similar offer... get the cars, and have a race. Beaver Springs Dragway in Pennyslvania already does two Nostalgia Super Stock shows, the Nostalgia Nationals, run in conjunction with the York Reunion, and a separate race called Flashback Friday. Sounds like something that would be up his alley. __________________ Michael Beard - NHRA/IHRA 3216 S/SS

11-02-2008, 01:18 PM	#69
Tracy Robbins Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Youngsville, NC Posts: 846 Likes: 3 Liked 25 Times in 11 Posts	Re: Interest in Modified? I would venture to say most IHRA modified cars were automatics. For those that want exclusive stick cars they can run w/the "gear jammers" organization. They are basically ex-modified cars and put on a good show. They run predominently in the Carolina's and VA I think. Mike Boyles, James Stoneman, and Rick Nicolau (spell?) to name a few run w/ these guys on a regular basis and I know they had at least 20-25 cars at the Roxboro race last month. __________________ Tracy Robbins SS 9766

11-02-2008, 05:08 PM	#70
Joey Bohannon Member Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 103 Likes: 1 Liked 61 Times in 22 Posts	Re: Interest in Modified? I would love to see the class revisited, I for one would start building a new car tomorrow if IHRA was to reinstate the class. My Father lost 95% of his interest in racing when IHRA killed the class and My Brother and I would build a car in an instant just because we know how much he thought of that class. Of course we were one of those dreaded G/Econo Dragster groups, and that is what we would build if the class was reborn. Man those were some good times! Big Charlie's Garage