Live from las vegas

[Jeff Lee]

Originally Posted by Jeff Goss

Bob,

Thanks for the pics!

Makes those of us who have a race car in the garage wish we were there!

I could have won Class! LOL! Before I die, I WILL race in Vegas!

Jeff Goss
6990 SS/MA

Yea, there were two SS/H competitors there and it would have been a fun class race. Shop has promised me January delivery. I hope I don't die holding my breath...

[Ed Wright]

Originally Posted by X-TECH MAN

Yes, I agree on the brakes, fuel cell, and upgraded trans BUT have you really taken a close look at some of the FWD conversions? They are more like slow Pro stockers with the driver locations, engine set backs, etc. Some builders really push the issue and the NHRA tech people just let it slide. The B&W TV and cable has no relationship with what we are talking about. It dosent really matter I guess as long as they are kept seperate for class from the traditional S/S cars and the index reflects that style of car.

Yep, last time I looked at the rule book the SS steering column had to be stock length and stock appearing. SS/GT rules said everything is the same as SS, except where noted. Steering columns were not mentioned in the GT section last time I looked, which would mean the GT steering columns should still be stock length and stock appearing, right? Not long chrome plated tubing. Also, instead of factory swing pedals many have fabricated pedals coming through the floor, a foot or so back of the firewall. Of course, the drivers likely could not reach pedals in the original positions anyway. I don't remember too many stock vehicles in which you have to lean forward so you can look out the door, do you?

Glad I don't have to race them heads-up.

[Rod Greene]

Some observations from Thursday. After watching yesterday I am glad I sold my car and let my numbers/membership lapse. What a mess 250 cars trying to get scaled and fuel checked. The later rounds of Stock and Superstock class was annouced by what appears to be the Las Vegas bracket race announcer he didn't have a clue about class racing and seemed confused and unprepared. The A/SA final was a joke Hajek had a nap on the line and Holzman shut off at 1000 ft and coasted so Hajek could catch up and pass. Then Hajek stomped the brakes to slow down before the finish line. If Hajek wanted the Wally that bad he should have had Holzman redlight.
The 2 best things about the race were the track was very well preped and I only had to buy tickets for Thursday. I had a great time visiting with my friends in the pits.

[Bruce Noland]

Evan,

Oh, how your tune has changed. You posted earlier this year that nhra staff would have egg on their faces if these cars were as fast as some of us said they would be. Looks like the nhra guys have more than egg on their faces. You also posted that you told the Ford guys that the CJs would not be well received if they came in and ran huge numbers. You posted that it would give the appearance that Ford was running a ringer. Well this ain't evolution that we are talking about. This is a damn fast factory race car that is in fact a huge ringer and the new Mopar cars are no better.

Most people? Who are most people? Do you think that most people want to their sport ripped apart by greedy OEMs? Do you think that most people want to see their years of hard work go down the drain? I don't think most of us want to see this happen!

[bsa633]

The fact is that both the Mustangs and Challengers come with production V8's in numbers from the factory and those are the ones that should be used in Stock Eliminator...right now it's just a BIG JOKE...

Should be interesting to see when the specs for 2010 Ford is coming...maybe they get a bigger pulley and even a lower factor once again...i'm truly starting to believe that this is NHRA's way to get rid of the class without the lawsuit!

and by the way Bill...SS/AH was absolut the right thing to do..thats the only fair game out there with the games played now!

p.s. I also like to know where all the people that said "let them Mustangs run first before we speculate what they can do" have gone now...did they really not have a clue??

[Evan Smith]

Bruce,

I was speaking directly to X-Tech man, not to you or anyone else. X-Tech, (Terry) is often on the negative and rants and raves about how great the old days were and how much things stink now. Well, I wasn't old enough to have raced in the '60s and '70 and I'm sure it was a great time, but get over the fact that this is not 1970 anymore. Geezzz. My comment about evolution had nothing to do with the CJ's, and everything to do with the state of the sport. Look at any modern Stocker and you'll find technology and evolution: data-loggers, O2 sensors, adjustable stocks, $5,000 automatics and sticks, trick oil, coatings, lightweight brakes, and much more. That is just the way it is. I agree that some of these conversion GT cars are crazy, but they are GT cars. Find me a sport, be it Golf, Tennis, or any motorsport that doesn't have constant evolution. Tennis players don't use wooden raquets and Golfers don't use real woods anymore. I'm sure there are some who say those sports aren't what they used to be either. CJ's aside, there are plenty of people who are having a lot of fun now, just like you did when you won your Jr. Stock championship.

I have not changed my tune and would be glad to hash out any differences in person and not on the Internet. I've done more than my share to help the Stock and Super Stock racing and the racers involved, be it in the print media or with my participation in the SRAC, so don't try and drag me down. Most others get on here and cry about this and that. I'd rather focus my effort on positive things.

I still stand by the fact that Ford's intent was not to ruin the sport, which many of you claim. My tune has not changed. Sure they took advantage of the system, just as other manufacturers have for 40 years! I'm sure Terry can give us some examples from the past. If it was a GM car that had CJ potential the tables wold surely be turned and that is a fact. If the NHRA couldn't see the potential of this car then shame on them. It's obvious that we all saw it. Nevertheless, in the end, guys like Fezzall (not sure of spelling) and Hajek, will ruin these cars in quick manner anyway. I believe that both the stick and auto will have 14 hp on them by Monday and I'm sure 14 more then next time they decide to do nothing more than qualify 1st or try to win class.

Evan

[Alan Roehrich]

Evan, a two or three tenth advantage would be one thing. You know damned well that 14HP won't even slow them down enough for DeArmond and Sorenson to come close to catching them, never mind for the rest of us to even get close. Those cars make Henson's Hemi car look like a slug. Hell, even Hawk wouldn't have a prayer.

Is it great that at least Ford and Chrysler are interested in Stock? Sure it is. But cars that have never had a screw turned on them dialing 1.48 under the index in bracket mode is a joke, and we all know it.

"Taking advantage" of the rules would be having a car that would run 1.5 or 1.6 under the index after having a full Stock Eliminator style blueprint build, and running at the class minimum weight. What is going on now is making a mockery and a farce of the class.

Some of those cars will approach 2 seconds under the AA index if they'll hook up, and the engines haven't even been apart. Even with 14 HP on them, they are not factored as heavy as a ZL-1, an L-88, a real Hemi, or even one or two of the FE Fords. With the 14HP, they're only 4 HP worse off than a 427/425 carrying the 10HP aluminum head penalty.

The truth is that you can't safely or reasonably add enough weight to any of those cars to reign them in. In fact, before you even get close, their "natural class" would be about a pound and a half lighter per HP than AA. If they get close to the HP they should have, they won't be able to add enough weight legally in order to make class minimum..

The cars are cool. But they need their own class. If they hang enough weight on them to make things close to fair, the cars won't even be safe.

NHRA has a nasty habit of making very expensive and well developed race cars obsolete with a stroke of the pen. And they've done it again. They've done it at a time when racing is already in deep trouble, when the economy sucks, and Ford and Chrysler are knowing and willing partners and accomplices.

Spin it all you want, this isn't even close to the same as when the fuel injected cars, LSx or LT1 either one, came into the sport. And even if it was anywhere near close, it would still be wrong. In fact, it is worse. Doing it once could be excused as an honest mistake. Doing it a second time is nothing other than blatantly screwing the racers to make a buck. "*** for tat" or whatever you want to call it is not a game to play with other people's money.

I'd feel exactly the same if GM had done this with the Camaro. In fact, when GM was considering a Camaro Stock Eliminator program, I can tell you for a fact that the racers told GM they were not interested in pulling a ringer stunt like this. The racers expected NHRA to factor the Camaro correctly, and no one expressed a desire to have some sort of bogus ringer combination. The idea of using a supercharged engine was specifically rejected.

[Dick Butler]

This is a continuing example of how Factoring has been Broken for years as far as NHRA was concerned. If SS/AH werent so expensive it would be PERFECT.Only drawback besides cost is the moving rule book on what is acceptable each year.... Maybe a SS/HA class only for ONE CAR combination would be fair for a more BUDGET race car for many other racers...
Factoring proves to be wrong at about a %95 average... Unfortunately the Mod classes of Cubic inchs STILL makes it more even for anyone...

[Bruce Noland]

I agree with Alan's post.

Evan,

Glad to read that you are standing by all of your earflier posts. You constatnly pull out that old 60's stuff and the dirty deeds that GM pulled off with their cars. But, most corporations have grown into the 21st century and don't shove their customers around like nhra does. I'm at the Vegas race right now and the racers here don't like what they see. They fully understand what is happening with nhra and are just shaking their heads.

[Evan Smith]

Bruce, you don't have to be in Vegas to know that many of NHRA's customers aren't happy. (I'll be there Sunday and we can arm wrestle or something, only kidding). In my opinion the whole SRAC was a complete waste of my time and I'm not thrilled about that. The members who I was involved with have a real passion and we gave our all to make some simple changes to enhance the racing, but we got nowhere.

I've said a million times that I agree the CJs are way underfactored. Everyone gets this. I don't disagree one bit with that and I never have. From the start I've only chimed in when there was misinformation about the CJs, of which there was a lot of.

There is quite a lot that needs to be fixed with the current State of stock and Super Stock. I tried to do my share and didn't get far. Maybe the CJs and the Challengers should get a seperate class, maybe not. I also think there is some validity that they should be in SS since they are not street-legal. All good ideas. Maybe NHRA should have a better AHFS system that can work quicker than the one it has.

Regardless, you can either fold up, complain, or go out and have fun racing with your friends. Win, lose or draw, I have fun at the track. If was even fun losing to that Camaro of yours because I really enjoyed that style of racing (of course I wished you would have run in 2008). In time it will shake out and there will be another killer combo for everyone to complain about.


Evan