How about those ford cj's at vegas - Page 7

Evan Smith · 11-03-2009, 05:19 PM

Casey,

The 1999-02 Cobra is not supercharged and is by no means a killer, nor does it hae killer potential at the current rating.

Evan

Myron Piatek · 11-03-2009, 05:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bill dedman

RE: "They do need a realistic HP factor. But when they get it, they will be factored out of Stock or have to carry a stupid amount of ballast that will will just end up breaking driveline parts in the end."
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ++++++++

Not if a 7 pounds per HP Stock class is introduced.

What is so hard about realizing that? You could call it AAA/S and they'd have a place to race without having to add beaucoup ballast.

What is the problem wirth this? It could serve the '08 blown Mustangs, the Drag Pack Challengers, and the new, blown Camaro Z28 (if it ever shows up.)

There might be some '64 liteweight, Hemi MoPar sedans, a couple of T-Bolts, and maybe a Swiss Cheese Pontiac, or two.... (if they're legal for Stock.)

Is it such a huge deal to add another class on top of AA Stock?

I don't think so..........

Bill,

That's the same point I was trying to make to Bobby, which is explained in the second 1/2 of my post you partially quoted.

"The new cars need more HP but the factors should be below what we have now. Kind of like a SS/AH class for Stock, but for all 3 manufacturers and their "Factory Experimental" cars."

bill dedman · 11-03-2009, 10:07 PM

Myron,

Am I to understand that you want to "sequester" or "segregate" these new cars from the rest of the Eliminator, like the Hemi '68 cars are?

I fail to see where that would be necessary, if you just create a 7-pound class for them to run in. Other cars could enjoy that class, too... older ('64), liteweight, Hemi Mopars, T-Bolts, etc...

What would be the downside of keeping them as regular Stockers, but in a 7-pound class???

I don't know what you're trying to accomplish by taking them out of "Stock," or, am I mis-reading your intentions?

How about some clarification for my thick skull???

Thanks for any information!

Paul Merolla · 11-03-2009, 10:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bill dedman

Myron,

Am I to understand that you want to "sequester" or "segregate" these new cars from the rest of the Eliminator, like the Hemi '68 cars are?

Bill, the Hemis are not "segregated" from the rest of the Eliminator. If they were, then Bucky couldn't have won SS last month.

My .02...they really belong in SS. Don't need to reinvent the wheel.

Ed Wright · 11-04-2009, 09:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Evan Smith

Casey,

The 1999-02 Cobra is not supercharged and is by no means a killer, nor does it hae killer potential at the current rating.

Evan

Those are the models that had a factory recall for low power output, right? Those were dogs. I have several local guys bring theirs by for a dyno pull before and after taking them in for the dealership updates. PCM calibration and some kind of exhaust change, if I remember correctly. About 10 rwhp gain is all they saw, and and that put them right up there with my stock (but mildley tuned PCM) 1997 350" Vortec pickup. A lot of unhappy Cobra owners back then.

Myron Piatek · 11-04-2009, 11:00 AM

Bill,

As mentioned by others, they would still be in Stock with the lighter weight break. Call them AAA, FX, or whatever. Of course if the HP numbers and ET's get much faster, they should go to SS only instead of coming up with even lighter weight breaks. The Mustangs appear to be on their way and the Challenger may also if it ever gets smaller, lighter, a 6.4 Hemi, or whatever.

I brought up the SS/AH cars because I had thought that if any parity is ever established between the brands, those cars can have their own exclusive shootouts - late model factory race cars that represent what's available on the showroom floor. But as Paul said, they would still race in Stock regular eliminations like the '68 Hemi cars do in SS.

LARRY BELDEN · 11-04-2009, 11:03 AM

I had the opportunity to run heads-up against one of the CJ's (Semi-finals in class, LVMS) and THAT is when you realize how very wrong the situation is. The CJ had a R/T that started with a 3, hit the brakes at the thousand foot, TWICE, and still ran a 10.02!! It made my 10.36 look totally inadequate.

The two CJ drivers showed a complete lack of "Sportsmanship" when they refused to accept the standard method of pairing up cars. They wanted an all Ford final, we wanted a Camaro vs Ford final. We knew we were going to get our asses kicked, but it would have been fun. (Remember fun? Isn't that why we're here?)

I hope to pair up with them in regular eliminations the future. I don't believe either of them can cut a light.

My 2-cents

bill dedman · 11-04-2009, 02:04 PM

>>>"Bill, the Hemis are not "segregated" from the rest of the Eliminator. If they were, then Bucky couldn't have won SS last month."

No, in the Eliminator, they're not segregated, but in class, they are. You can't win SS/AH (CLASS) with a Ford or a Chevy.

I think their case is an anomaly; no one ever built a car in their class that could outrun them. Only makes sense to put them in their own class, for that reason, alone.

That may not be the case with the Mustangs; the Dodges are knocking on their door, and should improve with some track time. Who knows what the supercharged LS-Corvette motor that is going (supposedly) into the 2011 Z-28, will run....

I think all these cars could fit into a 7-pound AAA/S class without having to make a separate class just for certain cars. A shootout might be forthcoming, yes, but that's show-biz; a whole different deal.

Just my 2-cents, again...

Andrew Hill · 11-04-2009, 02:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bill dedman

>>>"Bill, the Hemis are not "segregated" from the rest of the Eliminator. If they were, then Bucky couldn't have won SS last month."

No, in the Eliminator, they're not segregated, but in class, they are. You can't win SS/AH (CLASS) with a Ford or a Chevy.

I think their case is an anomaly; no one ever built a car in their class that could outrun them. Only makes sense to put them in their own class, for that reason, alone.

That may not be the case with the Mustangs; the Dodges are knocking on their door, and should improve with some track time. Who knows what the supercharged LS-Corvette motor that is going (supposedly) into the 2011 Z-28, will run....

I think all these cars could fit into a 7-pound AAA/S class without having to make a separate class just for certain cars. A shootout might be forthcoming, yes, but that's show-biz; a whole different deal.

Just my 2-cents, again...

I'd say 6 pounds would be closer, but then you would have to deal with the problem of 9" tires going low 9s. They just need to go to super stock in my opinion.

Jim Bailey · 11-04-2009, 03:00 PM

I'll repeat myself one more time. Then again, with my short term memory loss from years of Nitro Racing, I may repeat it again. Or did I already say that? ...(laughing) ... We ALL know there is no STOCK in Stock Racing Anymore. However, if a car was never titled, has no vin numbers, could never have been licensed to drive on the street and drivin' home from the dealer, It's A SUPER STOCK CAR ONLY. I don't care how many were built or who built them. For a car to be a stocker, you should be able to have purchased the car off the show room floor at the dealer and drive it home. Period End. If the "powers- to- be", along with the manufactures, feel the need to continue this BS, then, the PURPOSE BUILT CARS should have their own class. This needs to be addressed RIGHT NOW !! Or when the Drag Pac Challenger filters down into the lower classes you'll hear whinning like you've never thought possible.

11-03-2009, 05:19 PM	#61
Evan Smith Member Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Tampa Posts: 400 Likes: 7 Liked 115 Times in 5 Posts	Re: How about those ford cj's at vegas Casey, The 1999-02 Cobra is not supercharged and is by no means a killer, nor does it hae killer potential at the current rating. Evan __________________ Evan Smith 1798 STK

11-03-2009, 10:07 PM	#63
bill dedman VIP Member Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Conway, AR Posts: 1,739 Likes: 0 Liked 6 Times in 4 Posts	Re: How about those ford cj's at vegas Myron, Am I to understand that you want to "sequester" or "segregate" these new cars from the rest of the Eliminator, like the Hemi '68 cars are? I fail to see where that would be necessary, if you just create a 7-pound class for them to run in. Other cars could enjoy that class, too... older ('64), liteweight, Hemi Mopars, T-Bolts, etc... What would be the downside of keeping them as regular Stockers, but in a 7-pound class??? I don't know what you're trying to accomplish by taking them out of "Stock," or, am I mis-reading your intentions? How about some clarification for my thick skull??? Thanks for any information! __________________ Bill

11-04-2009, 11:00 AM	#66
Myron Piatek VIP Member Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Florida Posts: 1,542 Likes: 34 Liked 138 Times in 51 Posts	Re: How about those ford cj's at vegas Bill, As mentioned by others, they would still be in Stock with the lighter weight break. Call them AAA, FX, or whatever. Of course if the HP numbers and ET's get much faster, they should go to SS only instead of coming up with even lighter weight breaks. The Mustangs appear to be on their way and the Challenger may also if it ever gets smaller, lighter, a 6.4 Hemi, or whatever. I brought up the SS/AH cars because I had thought that if any parity is ever established between the brands, those cars can have their own exclusive shootouts - late model factory race cars that represent what's available on the showroom floor. But as Paul said, they would still race in Stock regular eliminations like the '68 Hemi cars do in SS. __________________ LOCOMOTION Racing

11-04-2009, 11:03 AM	#67
LARRY BELDEN Junior Member Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: LONG BEACH, CA. Posts: 1 Likes: 0 Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: How about those Ford Cobra Jet's at Vegas I had the opportunity to run heads-up against one of the CJ's (Semi-finals in class, LVMS) and THAT is when you realize how very wrong the situation is. The CJ had a R/T that started with a 3, hit the brakes at the thousand foot, TWICE, and still ran a 10.02!! It made my 10.36 look totally inadequate. The two CJ drivers showed a complete lack of "Sportsmanship" when they refused to accept the standard method of pairing up cars. They wanted an all Ford final, we wanted a Camaro vs Ford final. We knew we were going to get our asses kicked, but it would have been fun. (Remember fun? Isn't that why we're here?) I hope to pair up with them in regular eliminations the future. I don't believe either of them can cut a light. My 2-cents

11-04-2009, 02:04 PM	#68
bill dedman VIP Member Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Conway, AR Posts: 1,739 Likes: 0 Liked 6 Times in 4 Posts	Re: How about those ford cj's at vegas >>>"Bill, the Hemis are not "segregated" from the rest of the Eliminator. If they were, then Bucky couldn't have won SS last month." No, in the Eliminator, they're not segregated, but in class, they are. You can't win SS/AH (CLASS) with a Ford or a Chevy. I think their case is an anomaly; no one ever built a car in their class that could outrun them. Only makes sense to put them in their own class, for that reason, alone. That may not be the case with the Mustangs; the Dodges are knocking on their door, and should improve with some track time. Who knows what the supercharged LS-Corvette motor that is going (supposedly) into the 2011 Z-28, will run.... I think all these cars could fit into a 7-pound AAA/S class without having to make a separate class just for certain cars. A shootout might be forthcoming, yes, but that's show-biz; a whole different deal. Just my 2-cents, again... __________________ Bill Last edited by bill dedman; 11-04-2009 at 02:06 PM.

11-04-2009, 03:00 PM	#70
Jim Bailey Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2004 Posts: 674 Likes: 15 Liked 584 Times in 94 Posts	Re: How about those ford cj's at vegas I'll repeat myself one more time. Then again, with my short term memory loss from years of Nitro Racing, I may repeat it again. Or did I already say that? ...(laughing) ... We ALL know there is no STOCK in Stock Racing Anymore. However, if a car was never titled, has no vin numbers, could never have been licensed to drive on the street and drivin' home from the dealer, It's A SUPER STOCK CAR ONLY. I don't care how many were built or who built them. For a car to be a stocker, you should be able to have purchased the car off the show room floor at the dealer and drive it home. Period End. If the "powers- to- be", along with the manufactures, feel the need to continue this BS, then, the PURPOSE BUILT CARS should have their own class. This needs to be addressed RIGHT NOW !! Or when the Drag Pac Challenger filters down into the lower classes you'll hear whinning like you've never thought possible.