Drooze

[boostedf22c]

Originally Posted by drooze

Nope, Im letting them all accumlate, then I figure I will print them out wallpaper my trailer with them and get a Ouiji board to divine the location of Elvis Presley.

Sorry couldnt resist, we are reviewing what we get yes....

What logs are going to tell me about Oiling issues I have no idea, but yes.

On the Oil side were running what supposed to be the best windage avaiable and a 3 quart (3 full quart) accumulator......

Noting more will be known until I get it home and tear it down.

You are assuming what went wrong, data doesn't lie. You are just throwing out a wild guess that it's oiling. You could be hammering the **** out of the motor and knocking the bearings out of it. Given your ET/MPH you aren't making crazy horsepower, the motor should live more than a couple passes.

It's absolutely foolish to be running that car down the track and not closely look at the data, actually, you shouldn't even of gone to the track and your tuner should of realized this as a MAJOR PROBLEM.

Case and point, similar situation as you, except I didn't talk **** for months building up to this so it didn't attract near as much attention. About 10 years ago I build a turbo'd car, lost a motor. I did the same thing as you and just guessed what went wrong. My datalogging system was screwing up, but I didn't think anything of it as I was convinced I knew what the problem was. Build another motor, and pop it. Same issue. Didn't have data. Built another motor, figured out my data logging issues, and found out that we had a wastegate problem and the car was seriously over boosting (data doesn't lie). Something that was so simple cost tons of money. Could be the same in your circumstances as well.

You have the "technology" so you say, use it. Your tuner should know better than to send a car down the track without knowing 100% sure that the datalogging system is working.

[Chris "drooze" Wertman]

Originally Posted by boostedf22c

Your tuner should know better than to send a car down the track without knowing 100% sure that the datalogging system is working.

Wasnt their call, was a consensus and a bet on me and the old mans part.

We knew the issues, we knew the risks we knew the reward, we played our cards, we lost the hand not the game.

The old man has a quote he likes to use when he makes a bad bet, or just simply gets beat in a hand "Sometimes you just gotta pay the man"

Such is life.

Knowledge told is good if it comes from a trusted source, but it is still no replacement for knowlege earned.

As you found yourself, well get there, it is what it is and it will be handled,

Knocking the bearings out, no, plugs clean, det cans good on dyno, aki logged clear and a visual inspection (I pulled the heads ... yes really ) before we tracked....everything was as perfect as could be....and out AFR was fat and timing low, EGTs right in line (those are logged seperate, or I say can and were) Not totally blind, just partway.....

[boostedf22c]

Originally Posted by drooze

and out AFR was fat and timing low, EGTs right in line (those are logged seperate, or I say can and were) Not totally blind, just partway.....

If your AFR was fat, and timing was low, EGT's would be high, not "right in line" Your tuner should know this. Just FYI

And as far as your other choices, hey, it's your money and your car. It's just going to be hard for you to back up all the **** you talked if you keep making some of these decisions.

[art leong]

Originally Posted by boostedf22c

If your AFR was fat, and timing was low, EGT's would be high, not "right in line" Your tuner should know this. Just FYI

And as far as your other choices, hey, it's your money and your car. It's just going to be hard for you to back up all the **** you talked if you keep making some of these decisions.

I must have a severe case of brain fade. I think I remember "way back" in my turbo days.
I would add fuel to lower egt's. And my turbo cars all went up the track without a datalogger. The only way I could tune the car was with the adjustable fuel regulater
And the only data I got was from the EGT gauge. No wideband or anything else, but somehow or other I managed. Ronnie Sox, Bill Jenkins, And Don Nickolson seemed to get by without data loggers for a number of years
New cars go through a learning curve. As I mentioned in an earlier post I couldn't get past the starting line 2 weeks ago. A lot can go on in 11 runs as shown on DRC.
This was their first time out with a completely new car, they will get it right it just takes time

[Nitro Joe Jackson]

Chris,
Sounds to me you have the money or right resources to spend on the right stuff, I would make a call to Irvin Johns and who ever is doing his motor work on the Dodge i would hooking up with them.

The right engine builder is going to send you out on the track knowing everything right and most of the top notch engine builders are at most events to help out when needed.
Never feel to shy to ask for help in the SS & Stock pits, they are a great group of people and i have never seen anybody not wanting to help out a new comer to SS/Stock racing.

My father is a engine builder for over 40 years and we have a lot of customers running in Super classes and we go out of our way at the races to make sure everybody is running ok and we have even given them our spare motor, transmissions or what ever if needed.

Hope the best for you guys and remember call if we can help in anyway with machine work.

[boostedf22c]

Originally Posted by art leong

The only way I could tune the car was with the adjustable fuel regulater
And the only data I got was from the EGT gauge. No wideband or anything else, but somehow or other I managed. Ronnie Sox, Bill Jenkins, And Don Nickolson seemed to get by without data loggers for a number of years

You made due with what you had back in the day, as did many others, and most weren't EFI, big difference. When I first started turbocharging cars, it was much the same as you described. However, with the technology and products of today that you can take advantage of you no longer have to guess.

You also didn't have the internet where everyone is in everyones business to see how many problems people are really having...haha. I'm sure tons of people were blowing stuff up learning.

I understand the learning curve of a new car. Believe me.

And retarded timing = Higher EGT's. Regardless of A/F

[Chris "drooze" Wertman]

WIll do, thanks for the resource. I have over the years enough of these engines breeding around the shop to scab parts, I have 2 ideas of what happened, both conjecture until I tear into it...

I dont know who is going to do the machine work, I have a guy I use but it all depends on what his schedule is he does mostly av work and right now everyone is getting ready for the racing season and the airshows. He can be as backlogged as crazy or doing nothing.

I need a good machinist I havent found one local. Not one I would trust with anything other than a lawnmower.

I asked Irv and I know who did his motor and have talked with them, they are an option, I think Ill be doing the next 2 myself. I have the stuff less pistons at the shop, so...1 mild, another wild....well start there, the old man has seen my motors and driven my cars, he knows as do I what I can and cannot do, so were both looking forward to one of :"Our" motors.

The guys in the pits have been great, no doubt and some very very good info, some insights into others things tranny and chassis setup we simply dont, didnt know and would have had to learn the hard way, the people it came from I have no question as to its validity.

Thanks Joe, I will very possibly take you up on it.

Cheers

Chris

Originally Posted by Nitro Joe Jackson

Chris
Sounds to me you have the money or right resources to spend on the right stuff, I would make a call to Irvin Johns and who ever is doing his motor work on the Dodge i would hooking up with them.

The right engine builder is going to send you out on the track knowing everything right and most of the top notch engine builders are at most events to help out when needed.
Never feel to shy to ask for help in the SS & Stock pits, they are a great group of people and i have never seen anybody not wanting to help out a new comer to SS/Stock racing.

My father is a engine builder for over 40 years and we have a lot of customers running in Super classes and we go out of our way at the races to make sure everybody is running ok and we have even given them our spare motor, transmissions or what ever if needed.

Hope the best for you guys and remember call if we can help in anyway with machine work.

[Chris "drooze" Wertman]

Originally Posted by boostedf22c

And retarded timing = Higher EGT's. Regardless of A/F

I NEVER said Retarded timing, NEVER, I said low, maybe it was a communication lapse you thinking I meant something I didnt.

These motors are just about PERFECT at 20.5-21 degrees total timing at WOT, period, just about anyone out there who knows these will tell you that , we were at 19 on 1 run 20 on another, thats what I mean we werent throwing 24 degrees at it, these heads have a stupid amount of flame travel. 20.5-21 seems to be the "Magic Number"

Low is "relative" I guess.

[boostedf22c]

Originally Posted by drooze

I NEVER said Retarded timing, NEVER, I said low, maybe it was a communication lapse you thinking I meant something I didnt.

These motors are just about PERFECT at 20.5-21 degrees total timing at WOT, period, just about anyone out there who knows these will tell you that , we were at 19 on 1 run 20 on another, thats what I mean we werent throwing 24 degrees at it, these heads have a stupid amount of flame travel. 20.5-21 seems to be the "Magic Number"

Low is "relative" I guess.

I'm glad to hear that you know what the perfect and magic numbers are. That paired with all the secret squirrel stuff has proved to be a killer combination.

[art leong]

Originally Posted by boostedf22c

You made due with what you had back in the day, as did many others, and most weren't EFI, big difference. When I first started turbocharging cars, it was much the same as you described. However, with the technology and products of today that you can take advantage of you no longer have to guess.

You also didn't have the internet where everyone is in everyones business to see how many problems people are really having...haha. I'm sure tons of people were blowing stuff up learning.

I understand the learning curve of a new car. Believe me.

And retarded timing = Higher EGT's. Regardless of A/F

You are new here and don't know peoples backgrounds or what they run or have ran. My turbo dodges must have had some secret squirels firing the fuel injectors. Or was that EFI? I ran turbo stockers from the mid 90's till 2002 But I couldn't make them run any faster than 2 seconds under the index. I'm sure with some knowlege they should have run 5 seconds under.