HP adjustments after the Dutch - posted

[SS/GSI]

Originally Posted by Stocker 2

However if a car IS found wrong in the post-run inspection, no horsepower hit is applied. That happened at two races recently, the Dutch Classic and the Jeg's Northern Sportsnationals. Both cars in question were found illegal in teardown so no horsepower was put on either combination.

Kudos to the tech dept for doing their job.

"Kudos" REALLY! The racer(s) above mentioned got away with zero HP and no penalty, WTF! Some of us work hard and spend a lot of time/money to TRY and go fast, and trust me if we were off a thou we would be gone in a heartbeat. I'm sorry, but saying you made a mistake or didn't know, doesn't exonerate you from punishment. At worst I would have expected NHRA to say, off the record, "pick your poison", 6-12 months or the HP, something! Maybe there was a bias due to the assembler??? I know if it would have been a hand full of other engine builders, the outcome would not have been the same, just guessing. Next time, if you don't know what's under your hood and don't wanna take the consequences of putting trust in your assembler, DUMP @ the 1000' every time! Not hard, half the guys out there do it.

[Chuck Beach]

Who signed the tech card for the entered car at that race? I believe it spells out who is responsible ...

[Bruce Noland]

Originally Posted by SS/GSI

"Kudos" REALLY! The racer(s) above mentioned got away with zero HP and no penalty, WTF! Some of us work hard and spend a lot of time/money to TRY and go fast, and trust me if we were off a thou we would be gone in a heartbeat. I'm sorry, but saying you made a mistake or didn't know, doesn't exonerate you from punishment. At worst I would have expected NHRA to say, off the record, "pick your poison", 6-12 months or the HP, something! Maybe there was a bias due to the assembler??? I know if it would have been a hand full of other engine builders, the outcome would not have been the same, just guessing. Next time, if you don't know what's under your hood and don't wanna take the consequences of putting trust in your assembler, DUMP @ the 1000' every time! Not hard, half the guys out there do it.

I think you may be getting ahead of the story! The racer at the Dutch was told that he would be receiving a letter from Glendora. And, the content of that letter is between the racer and nhra. A racer never gets his/her dose of "poison" at the race.

[Joe DeMarzo]

I have been involved with the same engine builder since we were puppy's and he is a man of his word. If Mr Tilburg said it was his mistake I do believe him. I heard him say it was his mistake not trying to get over on anyone. The driver has 2 engines, a 396/375 and a 402/375. Let us all look at our own programs for small msitakes (such as spelling) that go un-noticed.

I have known the driver for many, many many years and the driver in question is one of the nicest guys and is willing to take responsibility. It is my understanding that he could not back up the record run due to an injury to the trans and or converter.

How many of us who don't build our own engines tear them down to check before we race, yeah right. Maybe we can start another thread on how guys who don't build their own engines are slugs.

The valve infraction may be illegal but not suspension material???? Is a cc over or under in the heads suspension material? I don't know.

I can not and do not speak for NHRA. Has anyone ever been suspensed for a valve infraction or just DQed?

No HP should be given if the motor is illegal for anyone. Image building a bogus combination just so someone you are at odds with can get HP. That is plain silly.

If you drive by the scales or are light than no HP but suspension is in order. If you are smart enough to go that fast you should be smart enough to meet min weight.

When I buy my motor from Tilbug I trust it is legal but take full responsibility for anything that is wrong with it during tear down. Same with your car whether it be aluminum drive shaft, e-shifter, etc.....

Let us not put our frustration/anger in the wrong place.

Ahhh.. I feel better

[Wayne Kerr]

Evan Smith had a similar problem with valves, slightly too big if I remember correctly and didn't do any "time".


See you at the races,
Wayne Kerr

[Marc LaBrecque]

Originally Posted by Joe DeMarzo

I have been involved with the same engine builder since we were puppy's and he is a man of his word. If Mr Tilburg said it was his mistake I do believe him. I heard him say it was his mistake not trying to get over on anyone. The driver has 2 engines, a 396/375 and a 402/375. Let us all look at our own programs for small msitakes (such as spelling) that go un-noticed.

I have known the driver for many, many many years and the driver in question is one of the nicest guys and is willing to take responsibility. It is my understanding that he could not back up the record run due to an injury to the trans and or converter.

How many of us who don't build our own engines tear them down to check before we race, yeah right. Maybe we can start another thread on how guys who don't build their own engines are slugs.

The valve infraction may be illegal but not suspension material???? Is a cc over or under in the heads suspension material? I don't know.

I can not and do not speak for NHRA. Has anyone ever been suspensed for a valve infraction or just DQed?

No HP should be given if the motor is illegal for anyone. Image building a bogus combination just so someone you are at odds with can get HP. That is plain silly.

If you drive by the scales or are light than no HP but suspension is in order. If you are smart enough to go that fast you should be smart enough to meet min weight.

When I buy my motor from Tilbug I trust it is legal but take full responsibility for anything that is wrong with it during tear down. Same with your car whether it be aluminum drive shaft, e-shifter, etc.....

Let us not put our frustration/anger in the wrong place.

Ahhh.. I feel better

Well said Joe I totally agree ,"MAYBE NOW WE CAN JUST LET IT LIE AND END THIS THREAD"

[Mickey Whaley]

Originally Posted by Chuck Beach

Who signed the tech card for the entered car at that race? I believe it spells out who is responsible ...

Chuck unless the tech guy torn him down in tech before the race he has no clue what is in the motor, all they check is the normal stuff on the car seat belts roll cage blah blah he may be lucky to have gotten torn down if not the combo would have gotten HP no matter what.

[Jim Hanig]

Originally Posted by Larry Hill

Very impressive run using that flat manifold that the 402 came with.

Larry did it have the flat intake on it? I found in my 402s the 1.88 verses 1.72 there was very little difference. Jim Hanig

[TILBURG]

They problem I see here is like the first time the govt. does something the way they should, everyone gets in an uproar. Mr. Gaffy if you have a problem with me I would respect that you do not air it out on here. The post that I made at first was no way intended toward your current engine builder. I dont understand why you think this guy should be hung from the tallest tree. If you remember the year before last at Indy, one engine was five cc's light, another one someone changed valves and never re cc the heads and they were incorrect. Others had chamber problems and were all allowed to compete till the next race. So, Why is this so much different. If it is me, it should not be taken out on him. This is a performance based class, I think everyone is trying to get at the top of the sheet and not the bottom. (Except Fletcher could not resist buddy). lol
So why dont they make it mandatory that if you are 1.150 under you come apart, not just a head and cam shaft check. You bring a basket and it all comes apart. If you can go 1.150 under you can go 1.200 under. So that way no one with the same motor combo gets affected by your performance. Or if the timing system is out to get you like Bo spoke about others would not be affected. Also why dont they make the top ten cars all pull numbers and five of them go to the barn. That way no one is getting picked on and it is all random. If you need to stay out of the top ten, then so be it. How many combos have already been wrecked by an illegal head castings and lightweight billet cranks till they get caught.

[Bruce Noland]

Good points Brian. But nhra will not spend the money.