Most Under-Performing Musclecar Ever Produced? - Page 8

Jeff Lee · 06-10-2010, 10:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul Ceasrine

My original thought was correct.
Based on cost and performance, the 1969 Boss 429 is the
most under performing musclecar.
Boss 429 engine, big-port aluminum heads and aluminum intake,
Holley carb (though under-sized at 735 cfm), and 3.91 gears as standard.
Pretty much a 14.10 machine. Not a good choise for C/Stock.
PC

Now you're not comparing apples to apples. You need to look at the tech guide and explore more thoroughly. What is the allowable compression? Shows 10.5:1 but it may be much higher as I don't see very specific dome specs. A stocker cam is a long way from stock and specs are .492/.522. With the great clutches offered now, you can gear the snot out of those heads and still hook. I can't see the carb being a big problem. I'm sure the 415 factored HP (1970 Boss 429) is a problem but I would say NHRA would review and reduce since there has never been any active campaigning of one. At least in a few decades or so.
As you have seen in this thread, plenty of pigs are now plenty fast in Stock!

Jeff Lee · 06-10-2010, 10:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by danny waters sr

I would say the 71 Merc Comet GT ,302 two bbl only as well as the Maverick Grabber. These cars looked fast ,but had no performing motors. I bought a 71 Comet Gt new and jetted the 2bbl and a set of cut-outs and ran 14.98 best. (also had a 25"x 7 cheater tire), with stock gear. It would burn the right rear tire( with the street tires) off though.

Geez...what's bad about a 14.98 with a 2bbl and probably a 2.87 rear gear?

Alex Denysenko · 06-10-2010, 11:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul Ceasrine

My original thought was correct.
Based on cost and performance, the 1969 Boss 429 is the
most under performing musclecar.
Boss 429 engine, big-port aluminum heads and aluminum intake,
Holley carb (though under-sized at 735 cfm), and 3.91 gears as standard.
Pretty much a 14.10 machine. Not a good choise for C/Stock.
PC

NOT!

1965 Dodge Cornet (CL)
426ci/365hp, 4spd, 3.55, 0-60 - 7.9, 1/4 mile - 15.4 @ 89mph

1969 Mustang Boss 429 (HPC)
429ci/375hp, 4spd, 3.91, 0-60 - n/a, 1/4 mile - 13.34 @ 107mph

Paul Ceasrine · 06-10-2010, 12:18 PM

Easy there guys,
I'm just going by 1969 numbers.
Performance and cost.
I personally like the Boss 429.
Many different results on the Boss 429, by the magazine people.
Some of the first cars tested had 3.50 gears, and ran 14.40's, to much disappointment.
From the 69' model, early test results from Car-Life 7/69 were 14.09 @102.85 mph, with 3.91 gears.
Hi-Performance Car got the up-graded version of the Boss 429 in later 69' to run a 13.64, not a 13.34.
Still respectable.
Compression ratio closer to 11.20 - 1.
Remember, this car was set-up from the factory.
H.D. Suspension, staggered rear shocks, handling package (front-end lowered 1"), F-60 x 15" tires, 15" x 7" wheels, header-type exhaust manifolds w/free-flowing exhaust system, aluminum dual-plane high-rise intake, Holley carb (735cfm), high-lft solid-lifter camshaft (.492/.522), aluminum heads (did you ever see the size of the ports? a small family can live in their), monster-size valves, ram-air hood, 3.91 gears w/traction-lock rear, close ratio 4-speed, HD clutch package, engine oil-cooler, and trunk-mounted 85-Amp battery, and
hi-rated 65-Amp Alternator
* I don't think the 65' Coronet 426-S/365HP (Street-wedge) had any of those components.
But they did come with a mechanical-driven tachometer.
PC

PC

Bobby Zlatkin · 06-10-2010, 01:27 PM

Paul Ceasrine
But they did come with a tach-driven distributor...

Paul, Did you mean a distributor driven tach?

Jeff Lee · 06-10-2010, 02:09 PM

somebody was building a Boss '9 for the F.A.S.T. series. I heard it was around 850 HP with cast exhaust manifolds! Of course it is a bigger CID but externally all stock.

FINESPLINE · 06-10-2010, 02:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jeff lee

somebody was building a boss '9 for the f.a.s.t. Series. I heard it was around 850 hp with cast exhaust manifolds! Of course it is a bigger cid but externally all stock.

interesting what 40 years can do to an engine design. The engineering today surely can wake up the boss-9. Jon kaase is the man to see as he has many updates for that design on his website. Not sure if it would make a good stocker but might be a ringer in s/s. Just a thought !

blkjack · 06-10-2010, 02:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by k.pascoe

1976 Trans Am 455 4 speed; hurt my feelings it was soooo slowwwww

IF you think that was slow should have driven a stock "corporate" 6.6L in 79. 16 sec is an awful long time.

Paul Ceasrine · 06-10-2010, 03:24 PM

Bobby Z,
Yes, I guess I utilized reverse verbage.
I meant to say a mechanical-drive tachometer.
My friend bought a 64' Plymouth Belvedere with a 426-S
Street-Wedge,in 1974 for $350 and it came through with a mechanical drive tachometer.
An old Mopar tech. said they never came through with one, but I saw it
with my own eyes, and it worked.
By the way, for true 1964 performance, 'Doc' Burgess of 'Black Arrow' fame had a red 64' Belvedere 426-S in 1964. Ran A/SA, and ran dead-on 14.00's @101 with 3.91 gears, and virtually nothing else. Of course a true street-driven car.
Paul

hemicop · 06-10-2010, 03:40 PM

I think what's geting some of the Boss '9 fans so upset is that it actually did pretty well in NASCAR but not at the drags.
You guys gotta realize that these things were made for sustained running at high RPMs, not sprints like a drag race is. Also Ford, like other companies put more money into their NASCAR teams than drag racing so they could fool around with these motors more.
No one doubts a Boss's ability--Hell, I'd buy on of Kaase's tomorrow if I could, but dolloar-for-dollar it just wasn't the "silver bullet" (catch the sarcam?

) that Ford hoped it would be.

06-10-2010, 12:18 PM	#74
Paul Ceasrine VIP Member Join Date: Apr 2009 Posts: 2,546 Likes: 0 Liked 10 Times in 10 Posts	Re: Most Under-Performing Musclecar Ever Produced? Easy there guys, I'm just going by 1969 numbers. Performance and cost. I personally like the Boss 429. Many different results on the Boss 429, by the magazine people. Some of the first cars tested had 3.50 gears, and ran 14.40's, to much disappointment. From the 69' model, early test results from Car-Life 7/69 were 14.09 @102.85 mph, with 3.91 gears. Hi-Performance Car got the up-graded version of the Boss 429 in later 69' to run a 13.64, not a 13.34. Still respectable. Compression ratio closer to 11.20 - 1. Remember, this car was set-up from the factory. H.D. Suspension, staggered rear shocks, handling package (front-end lowered 1"), F-60 x 15" tires, 15" x 7" wheels, header-type exhaust manifolds w/free-flowing exhaust system, aluminum dual-plane high-rise intake, Holley carb (735cfm), high-lft solid-lifter camshaft (.492/.522), aluminum heads (did you ever see the size of the ports? a small family can live in their), monster-size valves, ram-air hood, 3.91 gears w/traction-lock rear, close ratio 4-speed, HD clutch package, engine oil-cooler, and trunk-mounted 85-Amp battery, and hi-rated 65-Amp Alternator * I don't think the 65' Coronet 426-S/365HP (Street-wedge) had any of those components. But they did come with a mechanical-driven tachometer. PC PC Last edited by Paul Ceasrine; 06-12-2010 at 11:02 AM. Reason: addition

06-10-2010, 01:27 PM	#75
Bobby Zlatkin Member Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Mills River, NC Posts: 417 Likes: 0 Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: Most Under-Performing Musclecar Ever Produced? Paul Ceasrine But they did come with a tach-driven distributor... Paul, Did you mean a distributor driven tach? __________________ Bobby & Norene Zlatkin L/SA

06-10-2010, 02:09 PM	#76
Jeff Lee VIP Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Anthem, Arizona Posts: 2,766 Likes: 0 Liked 3 Times in 3 Posts	Re: Most Under-Performing Musclecar Ever Produced? somebody was building a Boss '9 for the F.A.S.T. series. I heard it was around 850 HP with cast exhaust manifolds! Of course it is a bigger CID but externally all stock. __________________ Jeff Lee 7494 D/S '70 AMX

06-10-2010, 03:24 PM	#79
Paul Ceasrine VIP Member Join Date: Apr 2009 Posts: 2,546 Likes: 0 Liked 10 Times in 10 Posts	Re: Most Under-Performing Musclecar Ever Produced? Bobby Z, Yes, I guess I utilized reverse verbage. I meant to say a mechanical-drive tachometer. My friend bought a 64' Plymouth Belvedere with a 426-S Street-Wedge,in 1974 for $350 and it came through with a mechanical drive tachometer. An old Mopar tech. said they never came through with one, but I saw it with my own eyes, and it worked. By the way, for true 1964 performance, 'Doc' Burgess of 'Black Arrow' fame had a red 64' Belvedere 426-S in 1964. Ran A/SA, and ran dead-on 14.00's @101 with 3.91 gears, and virtually nothing else. Of course a true street-driven car. Paul

06-10-2010, 03:40 PM	#80
hemicop Junior Member Join Date: May 2009 Posts: 63 Likes: 0 Liked 2 Times in 2 Posts	Re: Most Under-Performing Musclecar Ever Produced? I think what's geting some of the Boss '9 fans so upset is that it actually did pretty well in NASCAR but not at the drags. You guys gotta realize that these things were made for sustained running at high RPMs, not sprints like a drag race is. Also Ford, like other companies put more money into their NASCAR teams than drag racing so they could fool around with these motors more. No one doubts a Boss's ability--Hell, I'd buy on of Kaase's tomorrow if I could, but dolloar-for-dollar it just wasn't the "silver bullet" (catch the sarcam?) that Ford hoped it would be.