NHRA seeking input on Delay Boxes/Switches - Page 8

Kevin Smith · 04-22-2007, 01:07 PM

This is actually a fairly ridiculous topic all the way around...

Heck... why don't we use a spec air pressure in the tires? This can be used as a reaction time tuning device.

While we are at it... why don't they use a spec launch rpm depending on the combination you run... lord knows I've used this method to move my reaction time around.

Bias tires vs. radial tires... adjustments here can be made in a bracket race due to the variance in air pressures and sidewall flex.

Transmissons/transbrakes... I've got two transmissions set up two hundredths apart.

Sunglasses/no sunglasses/blue blockers/wiley x.... hell mandate what we can wear on our eyes too! These do make a difference...

Bumping in... let's outlaw that too! I'm sure none of us have ever bumped in a bit to get that little extra we needed on the tree.

And more...

The fact of the matter is the bad drivers on the tree... well, they will still be bad. The good drivers on the tree will find a way to still be good no matter what devices, buttons or circumstances are mandated or outlawed. I would imagine that most, or all, of your perennial top 10 guys are utilizing some sort of adjustable button. If you think for a minute that a change in the rules will slow them down, that's probably a poor way of thinking, especially over the long haul. As history typically shows... the cream always rises to the top.

As far as a delay box taking an .040 and making it an .010... I guess it would depend on where the delay was set on the .040. Take some of the delay out of it if it's there. With rollout differences in tracks, I'm sure this adjustment needs to happen quite often. But as Mr. Mason said... it still requires you to have a good, consistant signal to leave on. The driver that is all over the map on the tree would still be lost.

My vote... do nothing! If guys are cheating now, they will find ways to cheat with the new rules. Believe me, the technology is there. Although, I do belive the faster cars will have some issues staying green without the button delays, the good drivers will make the adjustments necessary. Get it close and you can still use any of the things above to fine tune your tree. Let it rest...

Chad Rhodes · 04-22-2007, 01:10 PM

how about a .400 FULL tree.

Chad Rhodes
STK 2113
www.rhodesmotorsports.net

stockracer · 04-22-2007, 01:26 PM

Hit a .4 full tree with a 12 sec or slower car and see if you still feel the same way.

Chad Rhodes · 04-22-2007, 02:41 PM

I can hit a good light in my mid 12 second street car. I think I could do it in a stocker as well

Chad Rhodes
STK 2113
www.rhodesmotorsports.net

Bruce Fulper · 04-22-2007, 03:22 PM

Quote:

This is actually a fairly ridiculous topic all the way around...

Heck... why don't we use a spec air pressure in the tires? This can be used as a reaction time tuning device.

While we are at it... why don't they use a spec launch rpm depending on the combination you run... lord knows I've used this method to move my reaction time around.

Bias tires vs. radial tires... adjustments here can be made in a bracket race due to the variance in air pressures and sidewall flex.

Transmissons/transbrakes... I've got two transmissions set up two hundredths apart.

Sunglasses/no sunglasses/blue blockers/wiley x.... hell mandate what we can wear on our eyes too! These do make a difference...

Bumping in... let's outlaw that too! I'm sure none of us have ever bumped in a bit to get that little extra we needed on the tree.

And more...

The fact of the matter is the bad drivers on the tree... well, they will still be bad. The good drivers on the tree will find a way to still be good no matter what devices, buttons or circumstances are mandated or outlawed. I would imagine that most, or all, of your perennial top 10 guys are utilizing some sort of adjustable button. If you think for a minute that a change in the rules will slow them down, that's probably a poor way of thinking, especially over the long haul. As history typically shows... the cream always rises to the top.

As far as a delay box taking an .040 and making it an .010... I guess it would depend on where the delay was set on the .040. Take some of the delay out of it if it's there. With rollout differences in tracks, I'm sure this adjustment needs to happen quite often. But as Mr. Mason said... it still requires you to have a good, consistant signal to leave on. The driver that is all over the map on the tree would still be lost.

My vote... do nothing! If guys are cheating now, they will find ways to cheat with the new rules. Believe me, the technology is there. Although, I do belive the faster cars will have some issues staying green without the button delays, the good drivers will make the adjustments necessary. Get it close and you can still use any of the things above to fine tune your tree. Let it rest...

Best post so far.
I agree and it's my bet that: NOTHING will change.

And let me add this - Don't you doubt NHRA is going to sell or hand out buttons or anything else they could be held accountable for?

Yeth.

I miss my tranny brake....

mannymen · 04-22-2007, 03:54 PM

To those who don't believe delay boxes make you a better racer are wrong. Just ask any Super Pro racer. First off you eliminate counting down and anticipation. You may even get to crossover if the blinders aren't on the top bulb and you may get a second chance if you're the quicker car. Don't forget about bumping down if you've missed light altogether

I started in footbrake many years ago and was never consistent on the tree and once I moved up to Super Pro with a delay box my lights were consistently between .505 - .515. Delay boxes WILL tighten it up tooooo much and makes those terrible on the tree very competitive. This is why Super Comp/Gas are so competitive.

If NHRA did decide to allow delay boxes, it would then change a car owners chassis setup. Good Bye Big Wheel stands...........You're going a need a super consistent forward leaving car and we all know wheelies aren't consistent. Your car better be running within .01 -.02 every run or your flat out dead

It will turn into a Rich Matty, Mark Cook, Barney Barnhart - Norwalk Raceway Park show. What I mean by saying that is that their front wheels never left the ground and they rolled out slowly (Boring and confusing to the novices). Those who raced at NRP know what I mean.

I was not referring to cheating as others may seem to believe by the comment.

They are VERY good racers

I'm still against them in SS

Anyone know which way NHRA is swaying towards

Ray Menard · 04-22-2007, 04:52 PM

If I have this right...the difference between a adjustable button and a delay box is on which bulb you release. Button is bottom bulb, box is top bulb. Otherwise, it's pretty much the same. The advantage of a box (top bulb) would be a driver would have sufficient time to get both hands on the wheel before the car launches. Could make cars a little safer off the line!

'RG' Menard

Bruce Fulper · 04-22-2007, 05:18 PM

I don't think anyone's saying practicing with a box won't bring your average down. But that's not the topic.

I miss my tranny brake....

Chad Rhodes · 04-22-2007, 07:07 PM

Quote:

If I have this right...the difference between a adjustable button and a delay box is on which bulb you release. Button is bottom bulb, box is top bulb. Otherwise, it's pretty much the same. The advantage of a box (top bulb) would be a driver would have sufficient time to get both hands on the wheel before the car launches. Could make cars a little safer off the line!

'RG' Menard

well when we start having drivers wreck off the line insted of by standing on the brakes then that MIGHT be a concern

Chad Rhodes
STK 2113
www.rhodesmotorsports.net

j gardiner · 04-22-2007, 08:59 PM

i cannot vote on this because i only race ihra but i can voice my opinion here. no to delay boxes. they practically ruined bracket racing. thats why dragsters dominate bracket racing. when i started racing it was all door cars with a few roadsters mixed in. but when delay boxes came in the good racers did not have the advantage they used to, thats why the quicker more consistent cars came along. now you have to have a 50,000 dollar car to be competitive in big time bracket racing. my point is everybody is going to be alot tighter on the tree so alot more people are gonna go to the faster cars to try and get the advantage back. as far as going to a pro tree you might as well take your slower cars and throw them in the trash, a 13 second wheels on the ground leaving car has no hope of hitting a pro tree versus a 10 second wheels in the air car.

04-22-2007, 01:10 PM	#72
Chad Rhodes VIP Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Where the Green Grass Grows, AL Posts: 2,375 Likes: 0 Liked 3 Times in 3 Posts	how about a .400 FULL tree. Chad Rhodes STK 2113 www.rhodesmotorsports.net __________________ Chad Rhodes 2113 I/SA

04-22-2007, 02:41 PM	#74
Chad Rhodes VIP Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Where the Green Grass Grows, AL Posts: 2,375 Likes: 0 Liked 3 Times in 3 Posts	I can hit a good light in my mid 12 second street car. I think I could do it in a stocker as well Chad Rhodes STK 2113 www.rhodesmotorsports.net __________________ Chad Rhodes 2113 I/SA

04-22-2007, 03:54 PM	#76
mannymen Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2003 Posts: 728 Likes: 5 Liked 13 Times in 7 Posts	To those who don't believe delay boxes make you a better racer are wrong. Just ask any Super Pro racer. First off you eliminate counting down and anticipation. You may even get to crossover if the blinders aren't on the top bulb and you may get a second chance if you're the quicker car. Don't forget about bumping down if you've missed light altogether I started in footbrake many years ago and was never consistent on the tree and once I moved up to Super Pro with a delay box my lights were consistently between .505 - .515. Delay boxes WILL tighten it up tooooo much and makes those terrible on the tree very competitive. This is why Super Comp/Gas are so competitive. If NHRA did decide to allow delay boxes, it would then change a car owners chassis setup. Good Bye Big Wheel stands...........You're going a need a super consistent forward leaving car and we all know wheelies aren't consistent. Your car better be running within .01 -.02 every run or your flat out dead It will turn into a Rich Matty, Mark Cook, Barney Barnhart - Norwalk Raceway Park show. What I mean by saying that is that their front wheels never left the ground and they rolled out slowly (Boring and confusing to the novices). Those who raced at NRP know what I mean. I was not referring to cheating as others may seem to believe by the comment. They are VERY good racers I'm still against them in SS Anyone know which way NHRA is swaying towards __________________ N/A

04-22-2007, 04:52 PM	#77
Ray Menard Junior Member Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Scottsdale, AZ Posts: 49 Likes: 0 Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts	If I have this right...the difference between a adjustable button and a delay box is on which bulb you release. Button is bottom bulb, box is top bulb. Otherwise, it's pretty much the same. The advantage of a box (top bulb) would be a driver would have sufficient time to get both hands on the wheel before the car launches. Could make cars a little safer off the line! 'RG' Menard __________________ Ray Menard SS/CS (SS/DM & SS/EM) #7386

04-22-2007, 01:07 PM	#71
Kevin Smith Junior Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Placentia, CA Posts: 8 Likes: 0 Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts	This is actually a fairly ridiculous topic all the way around... Heck... why don't we use a spec air pressure in the tires? This can be used as a reaction time tuning device. While we are at it... why don't they use a spec launch rpm depending on the combination you run... lord knows I've used this method to move my reaction time around. Bias tires vs. radial tires... adjustments here can be made in a bracket race due to the variance in air pressures and sidewall flex. Transmissons/transbrakes... I've got two transmissions set up two hundredths apart. Sunglasses/no sunglasses/blue blockers/wiley x.... hell mandate what we can wear on our eyes too! These do make a difference... Bumping in... let's outlaw that too! I'm sure none of us have ever bumped in a bit to get that little extra we needed on the tree. And more... The fact of the matter is the bad drivers on the tree... well, they will still be bad. The good drivers on the tree will find a way to still be good no matter what devices, buttons or circumstances are mandated or outlawed. I would imagine that most, or all, of your perennial top 10 guys are utilizing some sort of adjustable button. If you think for a minute that a change in the rules will slow them down, that's probably a poor way of thinking, especially over the long haul. As history typically shows... the cream always rises to the top. As far as a delay box taking an .040 and making it an .010... I guess it would depend on where the delay was set on the .040. Take some of the delay out of it if it's there. With rollout differences in tracks, I'm sure this adjustment needs to happen quite often. But as Mr. Mason said... it still requires you to have a good, consistant signal to leave on. The driver that is all over the map on the tree would still be lost. My vote... do nothing! If guys are cheating now, they will find ways to cheat with the new rules. Believe me, the technology is there. Although, I do belive the faster cars will have some issues staying green without the button delays, the good drivers will make the adjustments necessary. Get it close and you can still use any of the things above to fine tune your tree. Let it rest...

04-22-2007, 01:26 PM	#73
stockracer Junior Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Posts: 79 Likes: 0 Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Hit a .4 full tree with a 12 sec or slower car and see if you still feel the same way.

04-22-2007, 05:18 PM	#78
Bruce Fulper Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: So. Cal. Posts: 651 Likes: 4 Liked 54 Times in 33 Posts	I don't think anyone's saying practicing with a box won't bring your average down. But that's not the topic. I miss my tranny brake....

04-22-2007, 08:59 PM	#80
j gardiner Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: waldorf Posts: 220 Likes: 14 Liked 53 Times in 28 Posts	i cannot vote on this because i only race ihra but i can voice my opinion here. no to delay boxes. they practically ruined bracket racing. thats why dragsters dominate bracket racing. when i started racing it was all door cars with a few roadsters mixed in. but when delay boxes came in the good racers did not have the advantage they used to, thats why the quicker more consistent cars came along. now you have to have a 50,000 dollar car to be competitive in big time bracket racing. my point is everybody is going to be alot tighter on the tree so alot more people are gonna go to the faster cars to try and get the advantage back. as far as going to a pro tree you might as well take your slower cars and throw them in the trash, a 13 second wheels on the ground leaving car has no hope of hitting a pro tree versus a 10 second wheels in the air car.