Econo Modified

[Glenn Hayes]

One thing that you need to keep in mind:
The NHRA has turned it's back on Sportsman racing for many reasons, but I believe they no longer want to deal with trying to enforce and regulate engine rules. This requires way to much time, man power, etc which equals money.

Look around, the Pro Mod, 10.5 Tire Classes, Top Sportsman, etc are thriving do to basically allowing you to show up with what ever combination you can dream up, and as long as you meet the minimum weight and have the correct tire, your good to go.

We all know why Super Street, Super Gas and Super Comp have flourished over the past 25 years, same reason, run what ever you want and don't break out. Where they went wrong in my opinion was allowing electronics and throttle controls. Take all of that away and put it back in the drivers seat and see what happens!

If your going to start a new class, one must learn from the failures of years and classes gone by. I, like many of you have been there through all of this over the past 40+ years and that's why this discussion is taking place.

[randy wilson]

Glen, you can't put lipstick on a pig, and call it a goat. Bracket racing, for ALL it's participation, has ZERO crowd appeal. And one way spec might work, is like I've stated, winners, runnerups, and record breakers pull a head, and we, the racers seal the box, ship it in with the owners return address, and let Brodix make the call. I'm sure for a small fee, they would be happy to do it. Also, have 5 designated racers police the class. I already said I'd furnish the fuel check equipment, and the P&G gauge. And no, it don't have to be me policing it. There's several I, and others would trust.

[randy wilson]

Thanks Mark.That helps.

[SStockDart]

Originally Posted by randy wilson

Gary, where have you been. The Brodix spec head is for CHEVY, FORD, AND MOPAR!!!!!! Also, more cars will come, and I doubt that many will come from current eliminators. They can keep doing what they're doing, and get the same results. NOT interesting anymore. No one cares anymore in the spectator world.

Sorry Randy, I have had no reason to keep up with spec heads. My Bad. I just checked with Brodix. Small block Mopar only.....not BBM

[Adger Smith]

Let the racers pay a small fee and hire Wesley to be independent from NHRA as Tech. He is available. He also makes & implements the rules for EMC. It is set up where He is the final say on Tech.
No reason an independent class couldn't be set up the same way.
There are lots of possibilities. Pro Mod has already opened the gate for classes that are run independent from the mainstream NHRA classes.
With the right set of rules and a good enough show the program could be sold to smaller regional/local tracks. For something like that to work you have to remember it has to have crowd appeal so the track owner can draw spectators. That is a must.!! In today's markets that is a 180 departure from how a lot of local tracks make money. A program like this will not draw enough racers for a track owner to make it profitable by the draw off the racers only.

[Glenn Hayes]

Originally Posted by randy wilson

Glen, you can't put lipstick on a pig, and call it a goat. Bracket racing, for ALL it's participation, has ZERO crowd appeal. And one way spec might work, is like I've stated, winners, runnerups, and record breakers pull a head, and we, the racers seal the box, ship it in with the owners return address, and let Brodix make the call. I'm sure for a small fee, they would be happy to do it. Also, have 5 designated racers police the class. I already said I'd furnish the fuel check equipment, and the P&G gauge. And no, it don't have to be me policing it. There's several I, and others would trust.

Randy,
I get it, trust me, but where does developing another "Class Car" bring back the spectator? They don't even watch Pro Stock!

Heads Up, pounds per Cubic Inch racing was always great to watch. I've been to Bethany, even raced there a few times in the late '70's. I've been to every NHRA national track event in the country, and almost every divisional event track dozens of times. I worked for a major racing sponsor.

There are small groups all around the country that are having some success with their specific styles of cars, The Super Shifters, The East Coast Gassers, The Southeast Gasser Association, as others. These are not NHRA or IHRA classes, and the area track or tracks that love them and embrace them with support do so because they bring in a crowd.

This "Style" of racing is what is bring folks back to the drag strip: [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=av0xgcchv18"]CPTV - THE ANATOMY OF A RIVALRY - YouTube[/ame]

[randy wilson]

Glen, this is just my opinion, so let me try to explain it. I grew up doing just no break out racing, so everyone knows where I'm coming from. When it was going, they averaged 1,000 spectators a night. And have had as many as 1,500. I ran at Eddyville in the 70's. They had standing room only, and 64 car fields in SS, and Top Street, (Comp) and turned away 86 cars the first time I entered. I was one. I did not qualify. The bump was .34 under. I went back when they started bracket racing. About 30 spectators. That's what we're missing, and I think it is over. I am quitting this year. Last year was my, and Steve Thompson's last. This just piqued my interest enough to stick around. Do I know it will work? No! Do I hope someone higher up sees the opportunity? Yes! Do I think they will? No! But it is fun to dream.

[Ven302]

As an interested bystander I see no need for "spec" heads, or other items that require capital expenditures. Go get a 1" restrictor plate and look at it. If you can only get so much air into the engine and so much out ( restricted exhaust 2.5") why make people buy new heads. I really don't care what head or piston or camshaft is under that spacer, Think of the ease of tech, 1" 4 hole spacer , 1" diameter bores NO tapered spacers. Then P and G and scale, what could be easier. Maybe have a canted valve /inline valve formula, but I would still run my inline stuff anyhow. As far as stud mounted rockers and timing chains who cares, it has been proven to be the wrong valve activation for over twenty years, other than the initial cost the Jesel's/T&D's will be cheaper in the long run. Make the spacer an item that can be interchanged with everybody, and make us swap them around with each other at each race.
You have to make this a class that for a couple hundred dollars lots of cars fit. I know of at least 4 maybe 5 cars that would consider this game. The tire deal is also a non issue, in reality it would not be the 14-32 car that would be the fastest car, but the car that has just enough tire. Keep the restrictions to the items that count.
Just my two cents, It needs to be simple and attainable for everybody that thinks they MIGHT want to try it.

Venice
SS/CS 3041

[Michael Beard]

Originally Posted by joespanova

A 2.5 inch collector ? Really ?

Yes. Although a 2" cone would be better. The concept of coupling restrictions on both the intake (restrictor plate) and exhaust (collector) massively mitigates any gains from trying to work the carb, cylinder heads, etc, because it can't breathe. It's not worth spending money on a no-gain proposition. If you used this method, you wouldn't *need* a spec head. Install the plate and collector on any combination, and go play. Tech is a breeze.

We did extensive computer modeling of this concept, ending up with everything from 350 small blocks to 540 big blocks running within less than a tenth of each other. Some ran the first half of the track better, and some ran the back half better, but it all came out in the wash. You can make weight break adjustments for different transmission types, body styles, or whatever you find out is necessary.

Bracket racing, for ALL it's participation, has ZERO crowd appeal.

We had 500+ spectators on Saturday of our American Doorslammer Nationals at Fayetteville in November, because we bothered to pass out a few flyers and only charged $10. Obviously not an overwhelming crowd, but not bad for "just a bracket race", and $150 marketing investment. Motor Mania TV regularly has over 10,000+ viewers watching big money bracket racing online. Anything that's not promoted will have zero appeal. Different types of racing appeals to different crowds. While not every crowd is interested in every market, there is a particular crowd for every market.

[randy wilson]

Ok, I'm confused. Am I to believe that a 461X head unported, with tall valves, and big springs will run with a 15 degree done by Reher and Morrison? Someone needs to tell the Nascar guys, they're spending WAY to many $ on heads in the restrictor plate classes. They don't know a stock vortec will do the same thing, and only cost $800.