The mines are now closed (AHFS)

[GUMP]

Originally Posted by Billy Nees

That's what I thought Daren was talking about. Realistically, I don't see what one has to do with the other. A savvy Racer is going to go as slow as he comfortably can until he HAS to go fast. How about if your "personal class average" can only go up, not down?

My point is that I feel the new system gives a racer a lot more opportunity to lower their average.

[Mark Yacavone]

Originally Posted by Todd Hoven

The only differences are, no more mineshaft rule. No instant hit for 1.20 under. Everything else is the same. Every run counts except for national open races.

I guess we should add..Indy permanently ruined.

[rboyle]

In my opinion if it was about creating a performance based incentive to help return Stock/SS to their performance roots then enhance the reasons to go fast. Bonus points, bonus money or some contingency or something? If number 1 got his entry fee back would that help? Maybe?
But in conjunction with raising the ceiling I think you have to raise the floor.
So runs under -.499 under shouldn't count towards your average if you go faster than -1.00 under.
Part of the problem with eliminating the mineshaft was that because those runs don't count for anything if 4 or 5 races a year went mineshaft it gave you fewer opportunities to lower your average.
Now every race that you go to can be used to lower your average.
Also penalizing every class a tenth or two or whatever, because of enhancements being allowed was a poor argument. Just because I'm allowed to run roller rockers and solid lifters doesn't mean everybody is or can afford to or even has the ability to do so.
My two cents

[Adub464Q]

Originally Posted by GUMP

My point is that I feel the new system gives a racer a lot more opportunity to lower their average.

Excuse my ignorance, but I am trying to figure out how this system in lowering your average is different than before?

If its a mineshaft race per current rules, would it not be harder to lower your average because the cars should all be running quicker (aka mineshaft conditions)? Secondly, how many races are mineshaft anymore, 6-8 a year?

I believe the intent here was to create a happy medium. Everyone has complained that Indy is the only race you have to run your car all out without a penalty. Others have stated that if you can go fast at indy, then your combo deserves the horsepower. This is aimed at settling somewhere in between that. You can go as fast as you want, but you are not getting off scot free as the runs will count towards a year end average.

My personal opinion....do away with the averages and manipulation altogether and let the human element come back into play and let a panel assign HP as they see fit.

[PozQB14]

Im surprised noone has brought this up yet since it seems these new rules are meant for people to drive their cars all out and show all the performance they have or "paid for". This will ruffle some feathers but in stock, there are no GT classes. Its factory stock or stock. You have no where to really hide.
But in Super Stock, you have cars that are pure Super Stockers from the vin# to the engine combo and they are able to run GT and Super Stock.

If your car fits a natural super stock class, you shouldnt be able to hop back and forth from GT and SS. By doing this, you'll create the same outcome as these new rules are hoping to acheive. More heads up races and itll go back to a performance based class. Now, you race one weekend and claim one year and show up with the exact same car and combo and claim another year to run GT, thats where tech needs to get involved. You want to change a bumper or hood and claim something else, go for it. But I think all GT cars should be cars that have engines in them that never came like that from the factory. This would change the entire outlook on the qualifying sheet.

[KRatcliff]

I did get a clarification. The runs only count towards the review if there are two -1.00 triggers. All runs count only under a normal review with the exceptions listed in the AHFS page.

As an example you could have an average of -.950 as an example, but no HP penalty if there weren't two triggers to initiate the review. The new rule is nothing more than getting rid of the mineshaft races and the instant triggers (-1.2xxx, etc...)

[Billy Nees]

Originally Posted by Mark Yacavone

I guess we should add..Indy permanently ruined.

Ya know Mark, old buddy, old pal, old friend-for-life, back in the good-old-days if you went to Indy loaded for bear you did what you had to do to win Class and Qualify and next week you were handed 10 HP and it didn't matter. Soooooooooo, I'm not seeing it.

[Mark Yacavone]

Originally Posted by Billy Nees

Ya know Mark, old buddy, old pal, old friend-for-life, back in the good-old-days if you went to Indy loaded for bear you did what you had to do to win Class and Qualify and next week you were handed 10 HP and it didn't matter. Soooooooooo, I'm not seeing it.

Yep, buddy, you're right but a whole different scenario.
Class winners first ,then fill in qualifiers..lessening the chance of heads up runs
Yes, the finalists would set a nat'l record but it was worth it for the payouts back then.
Nobody could run a second under the record or even a half second under.
Now everybody can .
I know I won more races when you had to run close to the record to win. I used to love watching the guys in the popular classes duke it out and hammer the hp and record into oblivion . I'd sit back with my 16 lb. 283 car and just watch it all unfold. I had a much better shot against factory backed hemi cars, etc.
NHRA sat back and let today's situation unfold, with no forethought or future plan, and now they're going to try to fix it? I don't think so.
I don't know the answer ..Whatever it is, it's going to p*ss off somebody.
Still, I don't believe handing out a few hp here and there after Indy is going to fix much.

[GTS340]

I hope every division has at least one mineshaft race.

Paul

[GUMP]

Originally Posted by Adub464Q

Excuse my ignorance, but I am trying to figure out how this system in lowering your average is different than before?

We usually have a few mineshaft races in Division 2. I see a whole lot more runs in the data base for me now. That's all...