It's About Time (Not MPH) - Page 5

Tom Meyer · 05-16-2021, 11:00 AM

You may what to look at your air inlet hose and filter. If that is a cone filter there is hp gains by just put a piece of tape on the end that we found on a wheel dyno with are 4 cly. Smooth bore hose and getting the length right is important. Tom

Mark Yacavone · 05-16-2021, 12:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tom Meyer

You may what to look at your air inlet hose and filter. If that is a cone filter there is hp gains by just put a piece of tape on the end that we found on a wheel dyno with are 4 cly. Smooth bore hose and getting the length right is important. Tom

Thanks, Tom. We tried some of that the other day.
First a 9" straight piece, then just 3 inches plus the filter.The engine would still miss and scatter off idle, once warmed up.
I "fixed" ,or fooled, i should say, that problem by taking the thermister / sender out of the water jacket and just having it plugged in and fastened outside the engine..
Now, the only problem is that when power shifted into 2nd, it sounds like I'm lifting the gas, but I'm not. I tried it at 6000, then again at 5500..Same deal.
I must mention, we're at 4600 ' , with a d.a. of 7300' .. I'm thinking that there's just not enough oxygen available in the intake when the shift pulls it down.
We're going to try it next week at Chandler, where the d.a. will be about half that.
Any ideas about this issue, anyone?

It is MAF, open loop, stock computer.

Tom Meyer · 05-19-2021, 09:46 PM

Lots of things is this a stock cam or a stocker cam? Is the ecm tuned to the new setup? Do you have good grounds to all components. Is there any codes, can you monitor AF ratio, what duty cycle are you injectors running. There is a lot of stuff going on, a trip to a wheel dyno is worth a lot, we change are whole power curve with small changes. Tom

Mark Yacavone · 05-19-2021, 11:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tom Meyer

Lots of things is this a stock cam or a stocker cam? Is the ecm tuned to the new setup? Do you have good grounds to all components. Is there any codes, can you monitor AF ratio, what duty cycle are you injectors running. There is a lot of stuff going on, a trip to a wheel dyno is worth a lot, we change are whole power curve with small changes. Tom

Stock, as in OEM cam.

ECM is bone stock . I have no way to crack into it,

Grounds? The whole engine and body is one big ground..(see thread)

No oxy sensor. No EGR. No vapor solenoids..Still, NO codes

Yes..A/F gauge

Duty cycle? Have no idea ..Stock 4 hole

One thing I am sure of.This car isn't getting an expensive tune up by someone else. Can't change anything anyway, except the fuel pressure

Thanks

Greg West · 05-20-2021, 05:44 PM

Are you using a MAP sensor? If so, you might try installing a potentiometer in the MAP sensor circuit so you can adjust the voltage from the MAP sensor to the stock ECU. Not sure if it works on a Ford, but it did work on a Mopar.

Dave Noll · 05-20-2021, 09:31 PM

These have an MAF sensor.

Tom Meyer · 05-20-2021, 10:54 PM

I am not that smart of a man but if you are running a stock system why are you running in open loop? I am not up on the early ford systems and I am sure you have talk to others running this combo. Was the air filter a dry unit, if it is a oil coated one they mess up the maf sensor. Duty Cycle is injector percentage on off if you get around 85 % you need bigger injectors. Tom

Mark Yacavone · 05-20-2021, 11:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tom Meyer

I am not that smart of a man but if you are running a stock system why are you running in open loop? I am not up on the early ford systems and I am sure you have talk to others running this combo. Was the air filter a dry unit, if it is a oil coated one they mess up the maf sensor. Duty Cycle is injector percentage on off if you get around 85 % you need bigger injectors. Tom

Fair question... My answer is consistency. Every EFI car I fooled with, going back 33 years, was deadly consistent,..with no oxygen sensor.
Technically, mine would be closed loop , minus the sensor, and the ECU might be confused and looking for something that isn't there.
I plan on getting inside the computer soon .Probably after I run it once.
I'll give it some fuel and timing, and go from there. Meanwhile, I can't imagine maxing out an injector, with a stock camshaft.You?

Dave Noll · 05-21-2021, 01:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tom Meyer

I am not that smart of a man but if you are running a stock system why are you running in open loop? I am not up on the early ford systems and I am sure you have talk to others running this combo. Was the air filter a dry unit, if it is a oil coated one they mess up the maf sensor. Duty Cycle is injector percentage on off if you get around 85 % you need bigger injectors. Tom

I run my Escort in open loop in part because I run leaded gas, because I'm fiddling with the ignition lead in the computer but I don't want it to detonate, and in part because of what Mark said, Consistency. I'm turning off "Adjustments". The air filter was stock, a dry element in front of the MAF. I haven't Data Logged enough to know if mine is @ or past 85% but I did set the Requested AFR @ 12.7 and the car responded positively.

Mark Yacavone · 05-23-2021, 06:26 PM

So, we went down to Wild Horse for the Summit race last night.
There were enough S/SS cars to have a 3 round combo race..I'm glad I didn't totally embarrass myself with my friends.
I guess this is good news but it doesn't feel that way yet.
The little car seems to be okay...No wheel hop or torque steer that's usually associated with FWD cars.
It felt pretty good behind the line at 4 grand. I decided to bring it out at 5000 at that point. it immediately started leaning out on the line. It spun a bit then didn't want to rev up, so I shifted it low. That didn't help. It did it in every gear as I went thru in 4th, but way too low rpm-wise. It felt like about a second over run ..I had to look at the time slip twice to believe it..It ran about .56 under !.
I tried a second pass with the fuel pressure cranked up and some more heat in the motor. It shut down before the 60' clocks, so I just coasted thru and loaded it up and headed for the hills.

Bottom line here ,is it should be a second under car, with the computer straightened out...

I built the car for our local combo series, but the future of that looks rather bleak.
I'd probably sell it really cheap right now..I mean really cheap...before I get in the mood to start working on it again.
Meanwhile, here's a few left over pics.
This one is the water pump brackets, and yes , I owe you a finished picture, which I will do soon.

[img]http
s://i.postimg.cc/02gPqLGD/20210515-175323.jpg[/img]

05-16-2021, 11:00 AM	#41
Tom Meyer Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Pierce NE Posts: 900 Likes: 51 Liked 301 Times in 105 Posts	Re: It's About Time (Not MPH) You may what to look at your air inlet hose and filter. If that is a cone filter there is hp gains by just put a piece of tape on the end that we found on a wheel dyno with are 4 cly. Smooth bore hose and getting the length right is important. Tom __________________ Tom Meyer 5240 SS Stock ???

05-19-2021, 09:46 PM	#43
Tom Meyer Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Pierce NE Posts: 900 Likes: 51 Liked 301 Times in 105 Posts	Re: It's About Time (Not MPH) Lots of things is this a stock cam or a stocker cam? Is the ecm tuned to the new setup? Do you have good grounds to all components. Is there any codes, can you monitor AF ratio, what duty cycle are you injectors running. There is a lot of stuff going on, a trip to a wheel dyno is worth a lot, we change are whole power curve with small changes. Tom __________________ Tom Meyer 5240 SS Stock ???

05-20-2021, 05:44 PM	#45
Greg West Junior Member Join Date: Jul 2016 Posts: 55 Likes: 11 Liked 46 Times in 19 Posts	Re: It's About Time (Not MPH) Are you using a MAP sensor? If so, you might try installing a potentiometer in the MAP sensor circuit so you can adjust the voltage from the MAP sensor to the stock ECU. Not sure if it works on a Ford, but it did work on a Mopar.

05-20-2021, 09:31 PM	#46
Dave Noll Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Div. 6, Eastern, WA Posts: 694 Likes: 2,255 Liked 219 Times in 105 Posts	Re: It's About Time (Not MPH) These have an MAF sensor. __________________ Dave Noll, E/FS ,L/SA 6526

05-20-2021, 10:54 PM	#47
Tom Meyer Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Pierce NE Posts: 900 Likes: 51 Liked 301 Times in 105 Posts	Re: It's About Time (Not MPH) I am not that smart of a man but if you are running a stock system why are you running in open loop? I am not up on the early ford systems and I am sure you have talk to others running this combo. Was the air filter a dry unit, if it is a oil coated one they mess up the maf sensor. Duty Cycle is injector percentage on off if you get around 85 % you need bigger injectors. Tom __________________ Tom Meyer 5240 SS Stock ??? Last edited by Tom Meyer; 05-20-2021 at 11:11 PM.

05-23-2021, 06:26 PM	#50
Mark Yacavone Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Miles From Nowhere Posts: 7,414 Likes: 2,581 Liked 4,447 Times in 1,693 Posts	Re: It's About Time (Not MPH) So, we went down to Wild Horse for the Summit race last night. There were enough S/SS cars to have a 3 round combo race..I'm glad I didn't totally embarrass myself with my friends. I guess this is good news but it doesn't feel that way yet. The little car seems to be okay...No wheel hop or torque steer that's usually associated with FWD cars. It felt pretty good behind the line at 4 grand. I decided to bring it out at 5000 at that point. it immediately started leaning out on the line. It spun a bit then didn't want to rev up, so I shifted it low. That didn't help. It did it in every gear as I went thru in 4th, but way too low rpm-wise. It felt like about a second over run ..I had to look at the time slip twice to believe it..It ran about .56 under !. I tried a second pass with the fuel pressure cranked up and some more heat in the motor. It shut down before the 60' clocks, so I just coasted thru and loaded it up and headed for the hills. Bottom line here ,is it should be a second under car, with the computer straightened out... I built the car for our local combo series, but the future of that looks rather bleak. I'd probably sell it really cheap right now..I mean really cheap...before I get in the mood to start working on it again. Meanwhile, here's a few left over pics. This one is the water pump brackets, and yes , I owe you a finished picture, which I will do soon. [img]http s://i.postimg.cc/02gPqLGD/20210515-175323.jpg[/img] __________________ We are lucky we don't get as much Government as we pay for..... Will Rogers Last edited by Mark Yacavone; 09-15-2023 at 12:46 PM.