Best Pontiac Powered Stockers

[Mark Yacavone]

Originally Posted by oldskool

At the Midwest Nats, Julie Biermann ran an .872 under, 10.678, which was good enuff for the #26 position. Randi Lyn Shipp was #35.

https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...er=30#indextop

Julie's 10.678 is a pretty respectable number. Don't know what her best time is, running in D/SA. Nowadays, you never know when/if a car is running all-out, or sandbaggin to protect their combo, by preventing an NHRA hp factor increase. No good reason to make your combo less competitive, just to see your name higher up on a Q-list.

She went 10.554 @ Indy 2020.

https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...r2020#indextop

Don't know Randi Lyn's quickest time, in D/SA. But, she turned a 10.502, @ Indy 2019, which was 1.048 under.

https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...r2019#indextop

They're 2 of the quickest D-port 1st gen Birds, ever. Mid 10's is quicker than similar Super Stockers ran back in the '70's.

I'm pretty sure you'll find that Tim /Julie's car is now a RA II

[oldskool]

Originally Posted by Mark Yacavone

I'm pretty sure you'll find that Tim /Julie's car is now a RA II

OK. Thanks for the info. I have no way of knowing that, since weight can be added/removed to move up or down a class. With @ 333hp D-port engine, it's a natural D/SA.

http://www.classracerinfo.com/Engine...9&MAKE=Pontiac

@ only 340hp, the round port engine Bird is also a natural D/SA. IMO, the round port heads & higher lift cam will MORE than make up that 7hp difference. So, if a racer don't mind running the rare & valuable round port heads, that seems like the smart way to go.

http://www.classracerinfo.com/Engine...3&MAKE=Pontiac

I remember that Leo Glasbrenner use to run C/SA with his round port '68. At least I THOUGHT it was round port. But hey, I could be wrong about that, too. I don't have any inside sources to keep up with what every Pontiac racer is running. So, most of the time, it's just a guess, on my part.

Also remember that Randi Lyn sometimes runs C/SA with her '67, which MUST run D-port heads.

[DeuceCoupe]

Originally Posted by oldskool

"...It would really help history if we knew the real story on the Swiss Cheese cars running in NHRA (maybe in B/FX?), how they ran, what class this car ran its 12.27 in, etc."

I just read that post. Probably can't answer all the questions. But, I'll share some pics & info I have that might shed some light on it.

Have pics of the Royal Pontiac car that Jim Wangers drove. In one of the pics, he is running against a Stan Long Pontiac B/FX Pontiac, probably running for the B/FX class win, which Jim won, at the '63 Nationals. I'll post the list which shows his ET, which was 12.59. Also have a pic of what appears to be that same car, with A/FX on it.

Also have pics of the Anderson Pontiac car, with Arlen Vanke driving. I don't know how many cars these big dealers had, that looked exactly the same. So, I can't say if they had different cars for different classes, or just made changes to meet different class requirements. Also don't know how the different tracks classified the cars. I'm guessing that some track tech guys probably put the swiss cheese cars in a Stock or SS class, if they weren't running the FX classes there, so all the cars could race. There were probably lots of mis-classed cars before that time & since.

The last pic shows Arnie's car, with A/FX on it. He ran lots of different classes, with several cars.

Note: Bottom line is that you can't believe everything you read online or in print. Also, this stuff happened almost 60 years ago. So, who can say EXACTLY what's true & what's NOT true about all the details from back then.

Here's some stuff about the 421SD engine that some may enjoy.

https://www.nhra.com/news/2021/421-n...orever-footage

I think I missed this reply, it's awesome!
So
1. The Swiss Cheese Cat ran in A/FX, sometimes. Probably didnt fare too well against the little Tempest. Great pictures of that.

2. It also ran in B/FX and won (I knew that part already).

3. Note the 671 Vanke picture actually says A/FX on the door but S/S up front. Maybe that's the riddle - some local meets let the Swiss Cheese Cat into S/S. That would jive with the 12.27 at 114mph or so, which could well have been an S/S record in early 1963 (records were changing fast back then). So maybe in the USATODAY article, it's a typo, not a C/S record but an S/S record. The Cat would have to be lighter than 3523 lb to fit into S/S but that makes sense for a Swiss Cheese car. Maybe when this "record" went up the chain it got erased as the national NHRA knew the Swiss Cheese car wasn't stock class legal?

4. That picture of the Swiss Cheese frame is great, it's actually making me hungry.

[oldskool]

In race #1, of the div 1 doubleheader, Bruce Noland has survived 4 rounds of Stock elims. There are 6 cars left. Also, he ran a 10.545, in E-1, which is .855 under. I assume that's the best time yet, in competition.

https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...er=30#indextop

https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...er=30#indextop

He apparently had mechanical problems in E-6. But congrats to Bruce for winning 5 rounds.

https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...r=100#indextop

[oldskool]

I just found a pic of the 1971 Indy H/S class winner. It is the "White Lightning" '71 Bird, driven by Max Sterling. He had at least 2 big Pontiacs, which were also named "White Lightning". The '62 was a nat record holder. Don't know about the '61.

I've posted pics of the H/S RU at Indy '71. It's the "Acre Maker" '71 Bird, driven by Gary Moore. I've probably already posted pics of the big Pontiac "Acre Maker", in this thread.

[oldskool]

I've probably already linked this video, somewhere in this thread. But, I just ran across it again, while lookin for another video. And, neither I, nor anyone else, will scroll back thru the thread to look for it.

The reason I'm gonna link it again is because it has several of the top Pontiac Stockers, that were running back in 2012. It's the 1st round of Stock from the 2012 Winter Nats.

The Pontiacs are: Scott Burton's RAIV powered B/SA '70 Formula(quickest Pontiac powered Stocker ever), Brad Burton's 455HO powered '72 Formula(2 Nat championships + multiple big event wins), John Schloe '69 Bird(mid 10's with D-ports), Leo Glasbrenner '68 Bird(has run low 10's), Larry Maxwell '72 455HO Lemans(10 sec A-body), & Lindy Lindholm's '77 GP.

Another reason I'm posting this is because this is a very good quality video. It has good close-ups of the cars & good close-ups of the scoreboards at the finish line, showing who won & all the numbers.

Here's the Stock Q-list from that race.

https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...r2012#indextop

Leo #2, Brad #5, Scott #9, Larry #12, John #18, Lindy #45

Enjoy !

[oldskool]

Just saw this list of '69 Indy class winners. Only recently ran across these pics of the H/SA "Movin On" '65 Pontiac 2+2, driven by Jack Briner.

http://classracer.com/classforum/sho...&postcount=101

The '65 2+2 was 421 powered. I think there were 3 versions. The base engine had 1 AFB 4-barrel. The other 2 had Tri-Power. The top option had more compression & a bigger cam.

Note: Some of the '69 class winners have been disputed. So, I can't verify anything posted on any list to be accurate.

[oldskool]

Well, I've just ran across pics of a couple of more nat event class winners. So, I'll have to include them as a couple of the "Best Pontiac Powered Stockers".

One is a '62 Pontiac, raced by Fred Davisson. It got the D/S class win @ the '69 Winter Nats.

Another was a '69 Judge, driven by Bill Bunker, sponsored by Colonial Pontiac, named "Colonial Banshee". It was the D/SA winner @ Indy '69(maybe).

Note: These are results that have been published on this site. Errors have been found. I can't guarantee what car actually won any class at any race.

[oldskool]

Another Stocker I recently discovered is the Warren Bros '66 GTO. Milt Schornack asked them to join the Royal Pontiac race team.

They kept the car name, "Catnip", & kept the "Warren Bros" lettering, but put Royal Pontiac lettering over the doors.

Haven't been able to find any performance info or racing accomplishments for the car. Assuming they ran pretty good, or Royal wouldn't have recruited them.

The 3rd pic shows the car in the staging lanes, in what appears to be the C/S class run-offs. Would love to know how many C/S Goats were in the lanes, that day. Pic #4 shows this car on the line @ what is said to be the '66 Super Stock Nats. It had won C/S that day & was running for Mr. Stock Elim. It won that round, but Bill Jenkins won the title. Milt Schornack had won the C/S class on Sat. They ran 3 separate class elims, Fri, Sat, & Sun. That B/SA wagon had won B/SA all 3 days. First I've ever heard of running class 3 different times in the same race.

I've read that back in the old days you had to win class, before you could run in the elims. This was probably in effect at most all the big nat events. Don't know about the small local tracks. Maybe some of you older guys can give us more info about running for class, back in the late '60's, early '70's.

[oldskool]

Don't remember if I've already mentioned this car, or not.

Anyhow, back in the early '60's, There were several odd classes that came & went. They went under such designations as S/S, S/SA, SS/S, SS/SA, OS/S, A/FX. B/FX, C/FX. But, during that period, there was no official NHRA class named "Super Stock", according to what I have read.

All these classes went under the heading of "Top Stock". The lower classes were usually called "Jr. Stock". Most everybody here knows all this.

Anyhow, I've been reminded again of a '61 Pontiac that ran in the S/S class. It was only raced a very short time, in '61.

Royal Pontiac built the car. If I understand the story correctly, George Hurst presented the car to the season Stock Points champion. That year, the winner was Chevy racer Bruce Morgan.

Well, as the story goes, Bruce took the car to the West Coast. Don Nicholson did some tuning on it. Bruce then ran for the S/S nat record & got it !

Then, either something broke, or he had some kind of mechanical problem, & took the car in to a Pontiac dealer, to try & get repairs under warranty. But, as the story goes, since it was a race car, there was NO warranty on it, & Bruce was told this, when he was presented with the car.

Apparently Bruce didn't like that he couldn't get free warranty repairs. So, since the car was from the current model year, he installed a stock engine & sold the car as a totally stock street car.

Now, if anybody reading this knows any of what I've said to not be true, or if you have facts to add, by all means, please post your info ! I have no 1st hand knowledge of the car or it's history. Just repeating what I've read. May not even have the facts of what I read exactly correct.

Apparently, there were several of the '61 SD cars which ran S/S. Pic #3 tells of a Packer Pontiac car that Stan Antlocer ran. Says he was S/S RU @ Indy, in '62.

And of course, Lloyd & Carol Cox picked up several S/SA nat event class wins, in '61-'62.