Best Pontiac Powered Stockers

[oldskool]

While lookin for the Nunzi prepped '69 Judge, I ran across 2 more '69 Judge Stockers, which I'd found pics of but don't think I've posted here.

The 1st one is was named "Jolly Olly Orange". Orange obviously referred to the color of the car. Don't know about the Jolly Olly part. It has "Schoon Motors" on the rear quarter. The 1st pic shows that it was towed behind a car, with a tow bar. That's how I started. In that pic, I think the car in the other lane is the "Viking" '70 Judge, another Schoon Motors car.

The 2nd car had "Whittington Pontiac" on the door.

[oldskool]

OK guys, for you guys who were @ Indy in '72, AND were familiar with Stock & SS cars at that time, I need some help here. Just ran across a post on a Pontiac forum which was talkin about the '72 Lemans/GTO that Truman Fields ran in '72. All the pics I have of the car show it to be running SS. But, this post seems to have said that for Indy '72, the car was switched over to the G/S class. Said it won the class @ Indy & set the G/S nat record. I found pics of it supposedly taken @ Indy '72. It was clearly running SS. Would appreciate any help in getting to the truth about these 2 Pontiacs that Truman Fields had, in '72.

In order to present the questions I have, here's a copy of what I posted on the forum thread.

" "...The car set SS/K records right off the trailer back in '72. Pontiac sent a role of 455 HO GTO stickers in the glove box. They would often take the Goat stickers off and run it as a Lemans as it had a 200 lb. weight brake in SS/I. Pontiac built the car very light and in SS/K they would have to add the 200 lbs. to make weight. There is a fair amount of hidden trickery from Pontiac to do so when the car was shipped. It had been successful enough that Mother Mopar set the Ramchargers, Sox and Martin...after them. They never got there and beat the HO..."

OK, I'd still like to get to the bottom of this. So far, I haven't found any online evidence to prove that The '72 Lemans/GTO was ever run in any class besides Super Stock.

BUT, IF I'm understanding what I've quoted below, it appears that the author said that the same '72 Lemans/GTO that ran SS @ Indy '72, was converted to & ran G/S @ Indy '72. Says it got the '72 Indy G/S class win & set the G/S national record. I don't think it's possible to run both Stock AND SS, in the same car, at the same national event. If it was allowed, the car would have to pass tech for the Stock class it was running. If it was legal for Stock, then it would have been slow for SS, @ Indy. So, who would do that, even if they could ?

"...Ford was a pain in Pontiac's side at the time with the 428 CJ stick cars still being a dominate force in stock. With this in mind they switched to G/S for INDY in '72. The car promptly went out and set the G/S record and won class. The nearest 428 CJ car was running over 0.4 behind. They sold the Goat immediately after INDY. The car went on to reset the G/S records in '74 and twice in '75. It made runner up at INDY but never won INDY again. Truman got transferred by IBM and he also let the 455 HO E/SA Formula go at that time that Pontiac had provided..."

That post also says that the '72 Lemans/GTO was sold in '72, but "...went on to reset the G/S records in '74 and twice in '75..."

Well, that brings up more questions. For me, the questions this post brings up are:

(1) Did that '72 Lemans/GTO actually run BOTH Stock AND Super Stock ?

(2) Were there TWO of these '72 Lemans/GTO cars, one in Stock & 1 in SS ? (I've never seen another mentioned)

(3) Was the G/S class winner/record holder car mentioned actually the Firebird that was mentioned, of which I have never seen any pics or performance/race results ?

(4) Who owned/ran the car that set records in '74 & '75, AFTER it had been sold ?

(5) What exactly is the truth about this '72 Lemans/GTO & the '72 Firebird, both which Truman Fields supposedly ran in '72 ?

Main question: What car actually ran G/S, won the G/S class @ Indy '72, then reset the G/S nat record in '74 & '75 ?

Can anybody PLEASE shed some light on this ?

I HATE to say a member is posting false info. But I haven't been able to find a single shred of evidence that the '72 Lemans/GTO that Truman Fields had, ever ran in any Stock class.

Somebody please help me get to the truth here !!! It may not be important to anyone else. But, if a Pontiac did indeed win class @ Indy & set the nat record in 3 different years, I think that is important enuff to report on. "

Note: In doing some more research on these cars I ran across this fact, which I'm sure I've read, but had forgotten. Besides winning Stock @ Indy '73, in his '68 Bird Stocker, setting nat records, winning class @ Indy, he was also IHRA Stock champ 2 years. "...Truman was also the IHRA World Champion in 1982 and 1983 and a Car Craft All-Star in 1984..."

[oldskool]

Found some pics which appear to be from an ad for the car, in '75 or later.

Painted on the rear was "72-74-75 N.H.R.A. Nat'l. Record Holder".

I assume that in '72, Truman was running it, in SS.

In '74 & '75, I have no idea who raced it or what class the recs were set in.

Any pertinent info will be appreciated.

[oldskool]

Well, I haven't found anybody on any forum I'm on who ever saw the Truman Fields '72 Lemans/GTO run anything but Super Stock. And I haven't found any pics of it in Stock trim or marked up in a Stock class.

Therefore, at least for now, I'll call that bogus info. Don't know where the poster came up with it.

And, although I've read that a Stock class '72 Bird was also provided for Truman to run in Stock, I've yet to see a single pic of it. If somebody has one, please post it.

'72 was a strange year, in Stock. It wasn't even run at some of the nat events. Field was not even full at some big races. Lots of guys left Stock. No cars older than '63 could run Stock. I think the rules stated that the cars had to be driven to the track. Don't know that the NHRA techs actually enforced that rule, especially at nat & div races.

According to the Jr. Stock book, the cars had to run street tires & a functional exhaust system with stock manifolds. No headers.

The weight breaks were changed. A-stock was 9.00 - 9.99 lbs/hp. B was 10.00-10.99. C was 11.00 - 11.99. G was 15.00 - 15.99. Don't think any Pontiac V8 powered '72 A or F-body Pontiac could have run as low as G/S. So, there's another reason to NOT believe that a Pontiac set the G/S record in '72.

There were lots of records set, tho, since all records began the year at a minimum. Again, this is according the Jr. Stock book. It says that a '72 Stage 1 Buick dominated the class, won the 1st & last nat event, & held the nat record in it's class.

https://www.listedbuy.com/cars/class...d-champ-museum

Here's some clips from the World Finals, @ Amarillo. Shows the Stock final round.



I know some of you older guys were racing in '72. What are your memories of how Stock was handled at the big races ?

http://classracer.com/classforum/showthread.php?t=51198

Just thought of this. '68 div 4 Stock champ Gary Moore set the F/S nat record @ the '69 Winter nats, in a '61 Pontiac. In '71, he was running a '71 H/S Bird. But, for '72, he'd switched over to SS, with a '72 Bird. Don't know if he used the same body, with '72 updates, or not. Guessing that he was one of the Stock racers who switched to SS, because of the new for '72 Stock rules.

[oldskool]

Just found 2 more pics of the "Limelighter" '67 GTO record holder @ the Spring Nats. Was running E/S then.

[Billy Nees]

Originally Posted by oldskool

Found some pics which appear to be from an ad for the car, in '75 or later.

Painted on the rear was "72-74-75 N.H.R.A. Nat'l. Record Holder".

I assume that in '72, Truman was running it, in SS.

In '74 & '75, I have no idea who raced it or what class the recs were set in.

Any pertinent info will be appreciated.

Look closely at your GTO pic, I think you'll find that it is in 1972 Stock trim.

[oldskool]

Originally Posted by Billy Nees

Look closely at your GTO pic, I think you'll find that it is in 1972 Stock trim.

After looking into this a little closer, & running some numbers on a calculator, here's some things I've concluded.

(1) In '72, the weight break for G/S was 15,00-15.99. Well, not even a 2-barrel 400 engine would have run that low a class. Therefore, that car could not have run G/S in '72, in NHRA. Same goes for the '72 Bird, which Truman supposedly had, of which I've never seen a pic.

(2) But, in '74 & '75, sure. With all the possible 400 & 455 engines it could have run, it could have probably run G/S with at least one of those combos. IIRC, Todd Hoven won a nat event & got the G/SA class win @ Indy, in a '72 GTO.

(3) I noticed in the for sale pic the car did not have roll bars. Thought maybe that was an indication that maybe it had been switched over to Stock & the bars removed.

But, after lookin at the pic posted below, it's very obvious that the car did not have roll bars when Truman was driving it in SS/K.

(4) Under the hood, you can see a windshield wiper motor & alternator. Would just assume that SS racers could/would remove those. But, one or both could have been added, just to help with the sale.

There's a factory air cleaner on the engine. But, I don't know if that was required in Stock or SS, in '72. May have just been put on to cover the carb, & make the ad look better.

(5) Back then SS cars were what I call "Small Tire Super Stockers". I can't tell from the for sale pic exactly what tires are on the car. Anyhow, those tires were probably NOT what was run on the car, either in Stock or SS.

Anyhow, Billy, I don't have enuff knowledge of Stocker construction to see what you obviously see. So, please point out the things you see that indicate the car was run in Stock.

Again, anyone here who actually saw either the A or F-body that Truman had in '72, running in Stock, please post that info and any pics or links to pics showing either car with Stock lettering on 'em. Would love to know who owned/raced these cars after Truman.

Thanks for any help ! Would like to get to the truth about the 2 '72 model cars Truman had, in '72. .

[oldskool]

Hey, I just happened to think of this. Tom Olson posted that he had raced with Truman & helped him work on the '68 Bird Truman got from Roy & Mike McKinney.

Also said that after Truman moved, Tom himself built a '72 455HO powered Stock Bird.

http://classracer.com/classforum/sho...&postcount=449

SO, if they worked on Truman's car & raced together, it makes sense that they MIGHT have discussed the '72 Pontiacs that Truman had raced. Therefore, he MIGHT be able to clear this up for us, or at least provide more info.

I sent him a PM, so we'll see what he knows.

[Stan Weiss]

I don't know if Truman ever did run in stock in '72.

After purchasing his Firebird, Truman raced it in Stock Eliminator. He enjoyed enough success with it that he came to the attention of Pontiac Motor Division, who asked him to be a part of their 1972 factory drag team. Pontiac provided Truman with a new 1972 Firebird and a new 1972 GTO to race in Stock and Super Stock Eliminator, respectively.

https://www.dragracecentral.com/drcstory.asp?ID=14902


Stan

[oldskool]

Originally Posted by Stan Weiss

I don't know if Truman ever did run in stock in '72.

https://www.dragracecentral.com/drcstory.asp?ID=14902
Stan

Yeah, I've read that. BUT, have you ever seen a pic of that Bird ? Ever see any race results showing that he actually entered a race with that Bird ?

I have not seen 1 single pic of that Bird, nor read any race results showing that Truman ever ran it in a race.

If anybody has pic or race results of that Bird, please post it.