SS/D Thunderbolt in 1969 ?

[Tom P]

This clearly shows SS/D but how could the car fit that class? Power get reduced or a bunch of ballast? Pic is 69 US Nats https://archive.petersen.org/pages/p...php?ref=327928

[FireSale]

I have a 1968 rule book and SS was weight to cid. SS/D was 7.7-8.69 lbs/cid. A 427 Fairlane weighing 3300 lbs would make this class easy. Things were simple in the old days.Something like 16 SS classes including the automatics.

[Carguy49]

Yes Dale things much simpler in 1968. Actually there were only 12 classes in S/S - SS/A thru SS/F and SS/AA thru SS/FA, no big deal. In 1969 classes and breaks changed and there were 20 classes - A thru J.

The rulebook has changed A LOT since then, 56 pages then for the whole thing, 12 pages just for Stock Eliminator now, 33 for S/S and the variants of.

No wonder things are so messed up now - much simpler then, right?

[DeuceCoupe]

Here's the question, I asked over on FordFe.com, Tom was nice enough to bring it up here.

Point is, (See Picture) its a *1964* Thunderbolt.
I thought those 1964 fiberglass S/S body parts were banned after 1964?

OK I dont know if I'm actually seeing this but is it just me?
What's a T-bolt doing in SS/D=7.00 class at 1969 Indy?
It had to either be factored way down from the 500hp of 1964, or have a steel body at a weight of at least 3520 lb, way heavier than the old T-bolts in 1964.

Anybody know?
Maybe it was 428CJ powered LOL?

https://archive.petersen.org/pages/prev ... ref=327928


It would still have to be a 427, factored to maybe 450hp so
3206/450=7.12
That fits class.
Or a heavy steel T-bolt (Fiberglass bodies were gone after 1964 which is why Mopar did the A990 cars in all (acid-dipped) steel.
3520/500=7.02
That also fits.
Stock class, so it had to be an engine that "came" in the car LOL, from the DST "assembly line".

Also at 1969 Indy, NHRA let Mopar run a STEEL 1964 Hemi car (McCandless Dodge, also ran in SS/D=7.00 class & won) so maybe they also allowed a STEEL T-bolt to run.
I've just never seen one before.
That was the last year the 1964 cars could run in Super-Stock due to the 5-year rule so maybe they had a special all-steel going-away party for the 1st Race Hemi & the T-bolt.

[Paul Precht]

The original T-bolt factor was 425.

[Adger Smith]

Travis Miller and Wesley could be the NHRA Experts on these questions.
I think they had a lot of dealings with the Ford guys in that time frame including RJ Sledge that won Indy in 1989...in stock with one of the 427 combinations. See how long a memory Travis Miller has on the (fiberglass) issue RJ had....lol

[DeuceCoupe]

Originally Posted by Paul Precht

The original T-bolt factor was 425.

That was Ford's plan - especially with the 1964 LightWeight Galaxie (LWG).
Car Weight 3749
427/425-8v HiRiser 425hp
3749/425=8.82
Ford wanted to run that in A/S=8.70 class
There's even a Downtown Ford ad saying that.

NHRA just laughed & created the AA/S=7.00 class.

Same engine in the T-bolt, which then had to be at least 460hp so
3206/460=6.97
That put the T-bolt into S/S=0.00 class and the LWG into AA/S=7.00 class.

I've just guessed 500hp since books "say" that the LWG was "near the top" of AA/S, so
3749/500=7.49

Now, if we just lower the 427 HiRiser to 450hp (which I've heard was the case in eg 1973) we get
3206/450=7.12 and all the sudden the T-bolt now runs in 1969's SS/D=7.00 class, as the picture shows.

BUT - there's that thing about no fiberglass bodies. Mopar ran a 64 Race Hemi at 69 Indy but it was a steel body car, also in SS/D=7.00. The Hemi was not refactored, the steel body was just heavier.

Convoluted story, that's why I asked!

WHILE I'm at it:
The 69 Indy sheet says Tom Marsh was R/U in SS/D=7.00 class in a
1964 Ford.
Any idea if it was (another) T-Bolt or a LWG?

[427FE]

Originally Posted by DeuceCoupe

BUT - there's that thing about no fiberglass bodies.

Why? The minimum of 100 cars were built. The fenders and hood were glass and very few received glass doors.

[DeuceCoupe]

Originally Posted by 427FE

Why? The minimum of 100 cars were built. The fenders and hood were glass and very few received glass doors.

Well I thought I'd heard fiberglass body parts other than hoods were banned after 1964, which made sense since both Ford and Mopar stopped running their 1964 S/S cars. Maybe not then.

So Ford probably just stopped running the T-bolt after 1964 because it wasnt competitive any more?

And then, if the 427 HiRiser WAS factored down to 450hp for 1969, that moved the T-Bolt down into SS/D=7.00 class
3206/450=7.12
So it appeared after a long hiatus from 1965-66-67-68?

This would have put the 64 Gal LWG into SS/F=8.00 class at
3749/450=8.33
But, I dont see any there, at least no winners.

So if fiberglass was legal all those years, what happened to the 64 Hemi Mopars? They were lighter than the 65 A990 Hemi's but the 64's just disappeared, like the 64 T-Bolts.

I was a little young back then so dont remember this stuff!

EDIT:
Ok I re-discovered a partial answer.
In 1965 & 1966, S/S had to be at least 8 lb per CID, meaning the 1964 Race Hemi's and T-bolts were banned. Too light.
That's why the 1965 A990 weighed *exactly* 3408 - to meet that 3408/426=8.00 NHRA requirement.

In 1967, the same rule applied but only to SS/A.
But the 64 Race Hemi and 64 T-Bolt fell into SS/A, so they were banned for that year too.

In 1968, same rule, SS/A minimum 8 lb/CID, but the 64 Race Hemi and T-Bolt fell into SS/B=6.00-6.99, so I guess they could've legally run?
Sure, but they'd both be up against the new Race Hemi Dart/Cuda, so no point.

For 1969, SS/C=6.50 which let the 64 Race Hemi's avoid the 68 Dart/Cuda but still run, and they did.
And, with the T-bolt 427 HiRiser factored down to 450hp (apparently), they could run in SS/D=7.00 so they did.

Just to complete the narrative:
Prior to 1969, I believe the 427 HiRiser had to be factored to 490-500hp.
Why?
Well it didnt affect anything in 1964. The T-bolt ran in S/S and the LWG ran in AA/S=7.00 as long as the 427HR was factored at 460hp to 500hp.

But the May 1967 NHRA records show Mike Schmitt's LWG holding both ends of SS/BA=7.00-7.69 with 11.66 and 121.78.
To be all the way up into SS/BA, the 427HR had to be factored to at least 490hp so then 3749/490=7.65. Any factoring below that will drop the LWG into SS/CA=7.70-8.69 class.

So I'm concluding the 427HR was factored at 490-500hp up thru 1968, then down to 450hp for 1969 which is why the T-Bolt re-appeared for one last year. The 64 LWG could compete in 1967-68 in the SS/7.00 class but would be up against the Ro23/Wo23 Mopars and 427MR T-Wedge Fairlanes and just wasn't up to that. So they disappeared.

OK well if THAT all makes sense, thanks for helping with my thought process.

"It was my understanding, that there would be no math"
- - Chevy Chase as Gerald R Ford, 1976 presidential debate on SNL

[427FE]

Ford seems to have concentrated more on the sizzling hot FX classes after 64. Along with the introduction of the SOHC, the HR was kind of forgotten about. The 64 galaxie LW had good success in AA even into the year 1966. Pretty much dropped off after that.