S/C vs. S/G

3258 · 10-26-2010, 10:58 AM

There was some discussion a while back where people voiced they did not feel that the S/ST 10.90 racers were treated the same as the other classes.

Besides the different car requirements, and 1 second different index, what is the difference in running a S/G car vs. a S/C car as far as the divisional/national events.... is S/G a red headed step child like S/ST or ???

Chris Williams · 10-26-2010, 11:10 AM

I think SC and SG are largely treated as peers. And pissed on equally at national events.

BKSG1198 · 10-26-2010, 11:55 AM

For the longest time in Division 1 Super Gas was treated as the Red Headed Step Child. This year they did try to switch up the rotation so S/G was not always last or 1st to get bumped from the rotation if something happened in Qualifying. S/G would we be last out in the 1st TT and 3rd out in the 2nd TT but, come Saturday they stayed last in the whole rotation while I think SC was 3rd in the rotation. Super Street was always the first out in the morning but, they did run Stock 1st out at the Dutch this past weekend (Don't know if thats a sign to come in D1). I know when I went out to the Phoenix Divisional Race last year they run everything according to how fast the cars go, which I think is smart so you have Stk, Super Street, SG, Super Stk, Super Comp, Comp...etc.

SSTCamaro · 10-26-2010, 01:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BKSG1198

I know when I went out to the Phoenix Divisional Race last year they run everything according to how fast the cars go, which I think is smart so you have Stk, Super Street, SG, Super Stk, Super Comp, Comp...etc.

Hey Rob, there you go again trying to apply LOGIC to how things are run....LOL

Pete

frank v · 10-26-2010, 03:37 PM

i still dont think that order is right, do super stock cars go 160 + mph? lol. One day they will get it right.

Jason Oldfield · 10-26-2010, 04:26 PM

The cars in S/G and S/C routinely have more power than the cars running in S/S or even Comp (though there are obviously a few cars in Comp with VERY high hp). So, you could certainly argue that these are the cars that should run on prime track conditions, especially with most coming off the stop a few hundred feet out (where the traction is NOT as good as the starting line). And, with S/G cars having a shorter wheelbase than 99.9% of the cars in S/C, you could again argue that this is the class that should have 1st choice of run-time.

But, it's never going to go down like that because the way it works is that the guys that have the most money (on average per racer) get first choice of when they want to run (and where they want to pit). S/St, S/G, and S/C are all considered inferior classes to S/S and Comp primarily because the investment for an average competitive .90 car is less than an average S/S or Comp entry (though there are always outliers...for instance, the guys with Haas, Bickel, or RJ pro stock chassis racing in S/G).

So, my proposal would be the following:

1. Stock out first at 6am when it's dark and there's dew on the track. This will make them more interesting to watch as they skate around trying to get down the track. Plus, Billy Leber won't have to go to bed...he can just stay up all night like he usually does, and go to bed after he runs.

2. TA/D and TA/FC after Stock. Most of these guys don't get down the track anyway, and all the fluids they deposit on the track might actually be stickier than the dew.

3. S/St next. By this time is should be about 11am because it usually takes about 3+ hours to run a round of TA/D and TA/FC.

4. S/C - longer wheelbase means it's easier to get down the track with the same power than a shorter wheelbase S/G or fast S/S car.

5. 1st Round of Comp - Comp eliminations have become boring as hell to watch with the large disparity in performance. For the most part, all you have is redlight after redlight, with the higher qualified car lifting at the 1/8th mile as to not get hit with a CIC violation. So, eliminate qualifying altogether, and make it so there's a bit of uncertainty as to how fast your competitor is. Oh yeah, and it's going to be a handicapped instant-green race from now on too.

6. S/S or S/G - I don't care which is first, and neither will Billy Leber, as he should be up by this time of day (i.e. about 3pm).

BKSG1198 · 10-26-2010, 04:46 PM

Pete,

It's only because I'm drinking at work that's why I'm putting LOGIC into everything....hahaha

Rob

PS - Talk about LOGIC just read Jason's post.....Glad to see you back Jason it's been awhile since he's posted something!

Rollins_2241 · 10-27-2010, 09:41 AM

Or we could stop whining about changing the rules to accommodate those who spend infinibucks to run two seconds faster than the index in a .90 class? If you're coming off the stop at 400 feet, that's a choice you make.

This commentary is in the same vein as "lower the indexes a full second, because I'm on the stop too long and it's hard to dial". You can always change your approach to run .40 under and not worry so much about the track, if you're that concerned. Maybe the bucks-down guys should retain advantages in some situations.

hotrodgeno · 10-29-2010, 07:47 AM

The winners are winning and the losers are whining

CBS · 10-29-2010, 10:35 AM

Is this a Division 1 complaint......? it might be.....because in Division 3 most everybody seems to be fine with the schedule ....except for Super street not getting 1st round on Saturday.......

I don't know .....I tried to race in Division 1 and everything went perfect....lol Maybe a couple of track issues....and a few crashes...I can't see why you guys are complaining.....you just can't keep everybody happy all of the time.....lol Hell they even had a Red Bull vending machine in the staging lanes....and you guys are whining....lol

10-26-2010, 10:58 AM	#1
3258 Junior Member Join Date: Dec 2009 Posts: 23 Likes: 0 Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts	S/C vs. S/G There was some discussion a while back where people voiced they did not feel that the S/ST 10.90 racers were treated the same as the other classes. Besides the different car requirements, and 1 second different index, what is the difference in running a S/G car vs. a S/C car as far as the divisional/national events.... is S/G a red headed step child like S/ST or ???

10-26-2010, 11:10 AM	#2
Chris Williams Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Woodinville, WA Posts: 401 Likes: 0 Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: S/C vs. S/G I think SC and SG are largely treated as peers. And pissed on equally at national events. __________________ Chris Williams 6304 SC, TD, ET

10-26-2010, 11:55 AM	#3
BKSG1198 VIP Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Back in Vineland, NJ Posts: 2,478 Likes: 85 Liked 1,026 Times in 312 Posts	Re: S/C vs. S/G For the longest time in Division 1 Super Gas was treated as the Red Headed Step Child. This year they did try to switch up the rotation so S/G was not always last or 1st to get bumped from the rotation if something happened in Qualifying. S/G would we be last out in the 1st TT and 3rd out in the 2nd TT but, come Saturday they stayed last in the whole rotation while I think SC was 3rd in the rotation. Super Street was always the first out in the morning but, they did run Stock 1st out at the Dutch this past weekend (Don't know if thats a sign to come in D1). I know when I went out to the Phoenix Divisional Race last year they run everything according to how fast the cars go, which I think is smart so you have Stk, Super Street, SG, Super Stk, Super Comp, Comp...etc.

10-26-2010, 03:37 PM	#5
frank v Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: ny Posts: 286 Likes: 0 Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: S/C vs. S/G i still dont think that order is right, do super stock cars go 160 + mph? lol. One day they will get it right. __________________ s/g 1620

10-26-2010, 04:26 PM	#6
Jason Oldfield Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Rochester, NY Posts: 619 Likes: 1 Liked 10 Times in 4 Posts	Re: S/C vs. S/G The cars in S/G and S/C routinely have more power than the cars running in S/S or even Comp (though there are obviously a few cars in Comp with VERY high hp). So, you could certainly argue that these are the cars that should run on prime track conditions, especially with most coming off the stop a few hundred feet out (where the traction is NOT as good as the starting line). And, with S/G cars having a shorter wheelbase than 99.9% of the cars in S/C, you could again argue that this is the class that should have 1st choice of run-time. But, it's never going to go down like that because the way it works is that the guys that have the most money (on average per racer) get first choice of when they want to run (and where they want to pit). S/St, S/G, and S/C are all considered inferior classes to S/S and Comp primarily because the investment for an average competitive .90 car is less than an average S/S or Comp entry (though there are always outliers...for instance, the guys with Haas, Bickel, or RJ pro stock chassis racing in S/G). So, my proposal would be the following: 1. Stock out first at 6am when it's dark and there's dew on the track. This will make them more interesting to watch as they skate around trying to get down the track. Plus, Billy Leber won't have to go to bed...he can just stay up all night like he usually does, and go to bed after he runs. 2. TA/D and TA/FC after Stock. Most of these guys don't get down the track anyway, and all the fluids they deposit on the track might actually be stickier than the dew. 3. S/St next. By this time is should be about 11am because it usually takes about 3+ hours to run a round of TA/D and TA/FC. 4. S/C - longer wheelbase means it's easier to get down the track with the same power than a shorter wheelbase S/G or fast S/S car. 5. 1st Round of Comp - Comp eliminations have become boring as hell to watch with the large disparity in performance. For the most part, all you have is redlight after redlight, with the higher qualified car lifting at the 1/8th mile as to not get hit with a CIC violation. So, eliminate qualifying altogether, and make it so there's a bit of uncertainty as to how fast your competitor is. Oh yeah, and it's going to be a handicapped instant-green race from now on too. 6. S/S or S/G - I don't care which is first, and neither will Billy Leber, as he should be up by this time of day (i.e. about 3pm). __________________ Jason Oldfield S/G & S/St 1838

10-26-2010, 04:46 PM	#7
BKSG1198 VIP Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Back in Vineland, NJ Posts: 2,478 Likes: 85 Liked 1,026 Times in 312 Posts	Re: S/C vs. S/G Pete, It's only because I'm drinking at work that's why I'm putting LOGIC into everything....hahaha Rob PS - Talk about LOGIC just read Jason's post.....Glad to see you back Jason it's been awhile since he's posted something!

10-27-2010, 09:41 AM	#8
Rollins_2241 Member Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Tallahassee, FL Posts: 170 Likes: 0 Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: S/C vs. S/G Or we could stop whining about changing the rules to accommodate those who spend infinibucks to run two seconds faster than the index in a .90 class? If you're coming off the stop at 400 feet, that's a choice you make. This commentary is in the same vein as "lower the indexes a full second, because I'm on the stop too long and it's hard to dial". You can always change your approach to run .40 under and not worry so much about the track, if you're that concerned. Maybe the bucks-down guys should retain advantages in some situations.

10-29-2010, 07:47 AM	#9
hotrodgeno Junior Member Join Date: Feb 2010 Posts: 50 Likes: 0 Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: S/C vs. S/G The winners are winning and the losers are whining

10-29-2010, 10:35 AM	#10
CBS VIP Member Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Commerce, Mi Posts: 1,387 Likes: 1 Liked 4 Times in 2 Posts	Re: S/C vs. S/G Is this a Division 1 complaint......? it might be.....because in Division 3 most everybody seems to be fine with the schedule ....except for Super street not getting 1st round on Saturday....... I don't know .....I tried to race in Division 1 and everything went perfect....lol Maybe a couple of track issues....and a few crashes...I can't see why you guys are complaining.....you just can't keep everybody happy all of the time.....lol Hell they even had a Red Bull vending machine in the staging lanes....and you guys are whining....lol