HOME FORUM RULES CONTACT
     
   
   

Go Back   CLASS RACER FORUM > Class Racer Forums > Stock and Super Stock

View Poll Results: Yay or Nay
This is a net good 85 44.97%
This is a net bad 51 26.98%
Don't care, I'm going to stay in my lane 53 28.04%
Voters: 189. You may not vote on this poll

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 06-23-2025, 10:43 AM   #1
GUMP
VIP Member
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Shelby, NC
Posts: 1,819
Likes: 2,162
Liked 2,341 Times in 551 Posts
Default Re: Toyota Supra Class Prediction

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sgrossi7158 View Post
Why start with an arbitrary HP rating of 325. Why don?t we start out with the factory HP rating and let the AHFS work as designed?
That's a fair question. It's mostly because the NHRA published horespower rating no longer has anything to do with actual HP. Somewhere in time, it became a factor in the math to regulate the classes.

Due to standards that didn't exist in "The Way Back" the HP numbers that the manufacturers publish are much more honest than in the past. That would make them less than competetive in the world of NHRA Stock/SS racing.
__________________
Daren Poole-Adams
NHRA Stock/SS 2007
GUMP is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-23-2025, 12:31 PM   #2
Sgrossi7158
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2021
Posts: 22
Likes: 137
Liked 57 Times in 12 Posts
Default Re: Toyota Supra Class Prediction

Quote:
Originally Posted by GUMP View Post
That's a fair question. It's mostly because the NHRA published horespower rating no longer has anything to do with actual HP. Somewhere in time, it became a factor in the math to regulate the classes.

Due to standards that didn't exist in "The Way Back" the HP numbers that the manufacturers publish are much more honest than in the past. That would make them less than competetive in the world of NHRA Stock/SS racing.

Daren, thank you for the response to my question. I think what you are doing in terms of adding an exciting new car/combination to Stock Eliminator is a good thing and your hard work should be commended. However, one does not have to look back too far to see the results of what I believe is over generous NHRA HP ratings related to new cars/combinations.
For example, 2010 INDY; 11 of the top 16 qualifiers were 2008-2010 entries.
2011 INDY; all top 16 qualifiers were 2008-2011 entries.

In my opinion, new cars/combinations in Stock Eliminator should be competitive, but they should not be dominating classes full of previous top qualifiers that have been flogging out there combinations for the past 20+ years.
Sgrossi7158 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-23-2025, 01:36 PM   #3
Pat6868
Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 102
Likes: 6
Liked 88 Times in 28 Posts
Default Re: Toyota Supra in Stock Eliminator (Poll)

When classified by hp vs weight, body aerodynamics can be an advantage, old vs new.
Pat6868 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-23-2025, 01:59 PM   #4
GUMP
VIP Member
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Shelby, NC
Posts: 1,819
Likes: 2,162
Liked 2,341 Times in 551 Posts
Default Re: Toyota Supra Class Prediction

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sgrossi7158 View Post
Daren, thank you for the response to my question. I think what you are doing in terms of adding an exciting new car/combination to Stock Eliminator is a good thing and your hard work should be commended.
Thanks!


Quote:
However, one does not have to look back too far to see the results of what I believe is over generous NHRA HP ratings related to new cars/combinations.
For example, 2010 INDY; 11 of the top 16 qualifiers were 2008-2010 entries.
2011 INDY; all top 16 qualifiers were 2008-2011 entries.
I guess that was all Drag Paks and Cobra Jets? My thought is that it would be better to look at more years if you want to make a fair argument. I can think of more than a few combinations that are really strong when the AHFS is turned off.


Quote:
In my opinion, new cars/combinations in Stock Eliminator should be competitive, but they should not be dominating classes full of previous top qualifiers that have been flogging out there combinations for the past 20+ years.
That assumes that the performance increases are all due to "flogging". But, not "enhancements". Why shouldn't a new car be Bad ***** right out of the box?
__________________
Daren Poole-Adams
NHRA Stock/SS 2007

Last edited by GUMP; 06-23-2025 at 02:06 PM.
GUMP is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-23-2025, 05:36 PM   #5
Alan Roehrich
Veteran Member
 
Alan Roehrich's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Murfreesboro TN
Posts: 5,105
Likes: 1,564
Liked 1,789 Times in 408 Posts
Default Re: Toyota Supra Class Prediction

Quote:
Originally Posted by GUMP View Post
Thanks!


That assumes that the performance increases are all due to "flogging". But, not "enhancements". Why shouldn't a new car be Bad ***** right out of the box?



Why should a new car immediately be able to negate all of the hard work, development, and investment of combinations people have had for a long time?
__________________
Alan Roehrich
212A G/S
Alan Roehrich is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-23-2025, 06:02 PM   #6
GUMP
VIP Member
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Shelby, NC
Posts: 1,819
Likes: 2,162
Liked 2,341 Times in 551 Posts
Default Re: Toyota Supra Class Prediction

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan Roehrich View Post
Why should a new car immediately be able to negate all of the hard work, development, and investment of combinations people have had for a long time?
People were asking pretty much the same questions when the "supercars" ruined everything in the sixties....
__________________
Daren Poole-Adams
NHRA Stock/SS 2007
GUMP is offline   Reply With Quote
Liked
Old 06-23-2025, 06:07 PM   #7
Alan Roehrich
Veteran Member
 
Alan Roehrich's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Murfreesboro TN
Posts: 5,105
Likes: 1,564
Liked 1,789 Times in 408 Posts
Default Re: Toyota Supra Class Prediction

Quote:
Originally Posted by GUMP View Post
People were asking pretty much the same questions when the "supercars" ruined everything in the sixties....



"It's happened before" is no excuse for it to happen again. History is to be learned from, not repeated ad infinitum and ad nauseum.
__________________
Alan Roehrich
212A G/S
Alan Roehrich is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-23-2025, 08:03 PM   #8
GUMP
VIP Member
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Shelby, NC
Posts: 1,819
Likes: 2,162
Liked 2,341 Times in 551 Posts
Default Re: Toyota Supra Class Prediction

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan Roehrich View Post
"It's happened before" is no excuse for it to happen again.
I wasn't talking about the cars. I was talking about the crying...
__________________
Daren Poole-Adams
NHRA Stock/SS 2007
GUMP is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-24-2025, 11:06 AM   #9
goinbroke2
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: NS CANADA
Posts: 885
Likes: 1,586
Liked 384 Times in 149 Posts
Default Re: Toyota Supra Class Prediction

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan Roehrich View Post
Why should a new car immediately be able to negate all of the hard work, development, and investment of combinations people have had for a long time?
Reminds me of flathead fords that were 90hp. Bored/stroked/relieved/blown and they get 200hp! Then in 55 the overhead valve sbc was introduced with 200hp in a family car.

Technology is great, but shouldn't replace hard work. So the question becomes, how do you stop newer technology from dumping all over older tech that was messaged to get where it is?
Factor it correctly.

What happened when fwd cars came out? The hp/weight didn't take into account of the natural problem of pulling the car compared to pushing the car so they were factored by themselves (fwd classes)

What happened when turbos became common? Spec's for turbos to prevent "cranking it up and dominating" (buddy ingersol turbo pro stock)

What happened when blowers became common? Pulley dia spec's.

The common denominator is that newer tech is "better" than old tech so adjustments have to be made. Put it in a class that it doesn't immediately dominate or bump it up a class (add hp)

Not against toyota joining the fun, just want it done fairly. It's all a moot point until the first pass is made, then if it's 1/2 sec off the index and has to start like everyone else, fine. If it's -1.00 out of the gate then yes, adjustments need to be made.
You can't factor a 1965 sbc the same as a 5.3ls.
__________________
Jim Miller
103 U/SA
goinbroke2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Liked
Old 06-24-2025, 11:51 AM   #10
GUMP
VIP Member
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Shelby, NC
Posts: 1,819
Likes: 2,162
Liked 2,341 Times in 551 Posts
Default Re: Toyota Supra Class Prediction

Quote:
Originally Posted by goinbroke2 View Post
Not against toyota joining the fun, just want it done fairly. It's all a moot point until the first pass is made, then if it's 1/2 sec off the index and has to start like everyone else, fine. If it's -1.00 out of the gate then yes, adjustments need to be made.
So, in your world. I can build a 1969 Camaro with a 396/375 that will run 1.20 under and not use one original part in the entire car, that would be OK? But, if I build a new Supra from the ground up using the same rulebook and it runs 1.00, it should be penalized?
__________________
Daren Poole-Adams
NHRA Stock/SS 2007
GUMP is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 06:47 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2025, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Copyright Class Racer.com. All Rights Reserved. Designated trademarks and brands are the property of their respective owners.