attention NHRA and IHRA Where have all the class racers gone

[rognelson777]

Originally Posted by Randall Klein

Chew on this:

A wealthy contractor got the bug and bought a new Mustang; its been run a few times and its a dog...1 second off. Its been massaged twice at over $10K, and is at another shop right now. The owner has other issues as well, health, work.....but: I cannot imagine him going to the track at 7 or so, getting the car ready, making two time runs over a 8-10 hour period, leaving the track between, oh say, 5PM and 8PM, and then having a 6AM wake up call the next morning....a man of this stature will want to have some leisurely fun, a nice dinner out at a restuarant, at a normal eating hour and then a few refreshments

The fun meter is pretty low when you spend 10-12 hours for 2 runs, if that, and who of us haven't experienced the excitement of a 10PM time trial with dew on the windows and on the track....someone once said they are trying to put 10lbs of classes in a 5lb sack


Now, you may say, racing ain't for this guy, and your right...the question is where are new racers coming from, the entry level cost (discounting dime rockets), is too high to be competitive for the younger crowd, the older guys with deep pockets may be like the above contractor, not passionate enough to put up with the crap like we do....pit space with shin high grass or dirt about a mile from the action, fees for this and that, uneven tech, bad track prep, unfriendly track personnel, misfactored cars ruining your combo and on and on

Why do it? To paraphrase Robert Duvall in Apocolypse Now: " I love the sound of open headers in the morning "

Drag Racing: a disease for which there is no cure

this is part of the problem. The other part is, and I know this will get me in trouble, is stock and super stock is bracket racing. Some of the racers on here should go to cecil county street car races or The showdown at etown. It is heads up racing, limited by tire size, weight or power adder. 1st to the finish line wins. Cecil just had the yellow bullet street car race and I bet there were more fans there than all of the divison 1 lodrs races put together, even maple grove and epping races that were promoted. The other important thing that is happening is most of the racers there bring 4 and 5 people to the races with them, and you can show up and race on sunday if you want too. Test and tune friday, qualifying saturday and sunday and eliminations Sunday at 3pm.

Most classes are heads up, 1st to the finish wins. Now NHRA tried this many years ago in stock and super stock, and did not work because most money wins. Tracks had no racers and bracket racing began.

You want people involved, make 20 stcock classes, adjust the weight to equalize when 1 package starts to dominate and make it heads up racing.

Look up these special import events or street car shot outs at your local track and go watch what the young guys and girls are racing.

oh and yes their forums are always complaining about weight breaks, but so what as long as racers are showing up

[Michael Kilduff]

Originally Posted by rognelson777

this is part of the problem. The other part is, and I know this will get me in trouble, is stock and super stock is bracket racing. Some of the racers on here should go to cecil county street car races or The showdown at etown. It is heads up racing, limited by tire size, weight or power adder. 1st to the finish line wins. Cecil just had the yellow bullet street car race and I bet there were more fans there than all of the divison 1 lodrs races put together, even maple grove and epping races that were promoted. The other important thing that is happening is most of the racers there bring 4 and 5 people to the races with them, and you can show up and race on sunday if you want too. Test and tune friday, qualifying saturday and sunday and eliminations Sunday at 3pm.

Most classes are heads up, 1st to the finish wins. Now NHRA tried this many years ago in stock and super stock, and did not work because most money wins. Tracks had no racers and bracket racing began.

You want people involved, make 20 stcock classes, adjust the weight to equalize when 1 package starts to dominate and make it heads up racing.

Look up these special import events or street car shot outs at your local track and go watch what the young guys and girls are racing.

oh and yes their forums are always complaining about weight breaks, but so what as long as racers are showing up

I saw some video clips from the Yellowbullet race recently, looked like there were a lot of crashes. Some were really bad.

I don't doubt some of the fans there went to see some friends run their cars, but it's important to realize that small tire heads up racing has a 'Roman Coliseum' aspect to it similar to ADRL and Nitro cars. And NASCAR too-some people like to watch stuff blow up, crash, and catch on fire. Death defying feats and white knuckle driving has a certain appeal to lots of folks.

Fortunately that rarely happens in Stock and Super Stock racing.

[Nick Heath]

Originally Posted by treessavoy

All they care about is the newest IPhone, best Xbox game, loudest tin can muffler and the biggest car stereo and is it has more than 4 cylinders they don't understand it.

Truth is, I'm glad I'll be dead before they end up running the country. Not a single one of them has any ambition to better themselves.

Originally Posted by Paul Precht

So very true Jim, this country's future looks pretty grim. Local colleges send their students to my store to do community service and many cant even put a kitchen cabinet on a hand truck and roll it out the door without detailed instructions, build a race car, yeah right. Their lives revolve around their cellphones, nothing is more important to them.

Wow. After reading these kind of nonsense generalizations from so called class racers (and it's far from the first time I've read it here), why in the world would a young person ever want to associate with this sport?

That reminds me...I can't help but wonder if the overwhelming NEGATIVITY on these forums and in this sport has something to do with what's keeping out new racers? I read these forums frequently and all I seem to ever read is some complaint about the new cars, or Ford's scam to take over the NHRA, or the bogus 350 truck, or some other bogus hidden combination like the 350 Cadillac, or something to do with LS1's or LT1's and their different hoods and different body styles, or aftermarket cylinder heads or carburetors, or the AFHS, or 1000' racing, or this class combo deal...I've explained class racing and some of these political issues to a very good friend of mine and he laughs at it! Sure there's a valid argument to be made in every one of these debates, but when is enough enough? Whatever happened to working on your car, going racing, running really fast and setting a record, because it was a FUN hobby?

I think there are many other problems with the sport relating to young people. The "we're not a car culture" argument has some merit. In the 60's and 70's there were lots of kids taking their Chevelles and Mustangs and Road Runners to and from school. Today's kids are lucky to get a Toyota Camry. Now which one is more fun to mess around with in the garage? Which one has more aftermarket parts available? Which one is more fun to drive?

But I think the economy and the overall price of class racing is the biggest problem. Let's take a look...how much does an average turnkey LS1/LT1 stocker cost...$30k? What about spare parts? What about a truck and trailer? What about the cost of traveling to and from the track via $4 diesel fuel, especially if you don't live in D-1 or D-3? And then after all of this, you can't forget the entry fees. If you can come up with a way for a young guy to afford all of this, please share, I'm listening!

For the record, no, I don't have a class car. But I'm 22 years old right now... I've been going to the race track with my dad since even before he started racing in 1998. You can do the math. Since then I could probably tell you who had the baddest B/SA in the country at that time, or the fastest C/SA in D-3 or what classes a '62 Plymouth 413 could run in. I would love to get into class racing some day with my own car or my dad's car but after reading some of these posts I probably wouldn't be able to get the car down the track anyway so why bother?

[ChevyII]

Nick,

The head on your shoulders is beyond the years of experience on this board. Forget the negativity, if you want to race go for it. Racers are the most fickle bunch of whiners around. Never happy like most farmers ( and farmers forgive me for my candor) and for some reason class racers are the pick of the bunch.

Yes, the expense will make you shop carefully and over a period of time but if you want to compete and do it drag racing, then stay at it and forget what everyone else is doing. When you get in you car and pull to the line, it's you against the timer.

Keep the faith, enjoy life as it's too short and no one is else wants to listen to the negativity. Have fun!

Mike

[treessavoy]

Originally Posted by Nick Heath

Wow. After reading these kind of nonsense generalizations from so called class racers (and it's far from the first time I've read it here), why in the world would a young person ever want to associate with this sport?

That reminds me...I can't help but wonder if the overwhelming NEGATIVITY on these forums and in this sport has something to do with what's keeping out new racers? I read these forums frequently and all I seem to ever read is some complaint about the new cars, or Ford's scam to take over the NHRA, or the bogus 350 truck, or some other bogus hidden combination like the 350 Cadillac, or something to do with LS1's or LT1's and their different hoods and different body styles, or aftermarket cylinder heads or carburetors, or the AFHS, or 1000' racing, or this class combo deal...I've explained class racing and some of these political issues to a very good friend of mine and he laughs at it! Sure there's a valid argument to be made in every one of these debates, but when is enough enough? Whatever happened to working on your car, going racing, running really fast and setting a record, because it was a FUN hobby?

I think there are many other problems with the sport relating to young people. The "we're not a car culture" argument has some merit. In the 60's and 70's there were lots of kids taking their Chevelles and Mustangs and Road Runners to and from school. Today's kids are lucky to get a Toyota Camry. Now which one is more fun to mess around with in the garage? Which one has more aftermarket parts available? Which one is more fun to drive?

But I think the economy and the overall price of class racing is the biggest problem. Let's take a look...how much does an average turnkey LS1/LT1 stocker cost...$30k? What about spare parts? What about a truck and trailer? What about the cost of traveling to and from the track via $4 diesel fuel, especially if you don't live in D-1 or D-3? And then after all of this, you can't forget the entry fees. If you can come up with a way for a young guy to afford all of this, please share, I'm listening!

For the record, no, I don't have a class car. But I'm 22 years old right now... I've been going to the race track with my dad since even before he started racing in 1998. You can do the math. Since then I could probably tell you who had the baddest B/SA in the country at that time, or the fastest C/SA in D-3 or what classes a '62 Plymouth 413 could run in. I would love to get into class racing some day with my own car or my dad's car but after reading some of these posts I probably wouldn't be able to get the car down the track anyway so why bother?

For the record, Paul and I hit it right on the head. We weren't talking about racer's sons! We were talking about all those out there that don't give a crap about going fast, building a car they can't afford in an economy that doesn't pay them a thing and doesn't have a daddy to help them. They all have $300.00 phones, X boxes and are more interested in how many amp's their stereo pushes than the HP in their cars.

I've taken a few to Grudge night at Gainesville and offered them my PT Cruiser to make some runs but they didn't take me up because they were too busy playing "angry birds" on their phones. They had no interest at all.

JimR

BTW you little snot, both Paul and I were class racing before your dad learned to blow his nose. "...so called class racers..." my butt!

[Rusty Davenport]

There are great groups like East Coast, CCRA and others that need to be sure they keep on with these races......and other tracks need to let them in.....this will be the hope for the future........they are more valuable right now than ever. The right promotor/organizer has a great opportunity NOW is the time to make it happen.

[Robert Simpson]

Originally Posted by treessavoy

For the record, Paul and I hit it right on the head. We weren't talking about racer's sons! We were talking about all those out there that don't give a crap about going fast, building a car they can't afford in an economy that doesn't pay them a thing and doesn't have a daddy to help them. They all have $300.00 phones, X boxes and are more interested in how many amp's their stereo pushes than the HP in their cars.

I've taken a few to Grudge night at Gainesville and offered them my PT Cruiser to make some runs but they didn't take me up because they were too busy playing "angry birds" on their phones. They had no interest at all.

JimR

BTW you little snot, both Paul and I were class racing before your dad learned to blow his nose.

Jim you are so right about the grudge night at G'ville. It seams, the ones that I talk to, don't want to race for themselves because they think there car is so quick etc...But, when you get a piece of paper telling you what you REALLY run it take the steam out of there ego...LOL...This has nothing to do about getting younger racers into the sport. I see it comes down to cost and opportunity. They don't know that there might be other combo's available so they can compete on the divisional/National level...hence "Dime Rockets". Or they don't want to go that et etc. Or it is the fact that the money far excedes the possiable rewards. I understand the importance of a Walley, what it takes to earn one wiether it is a class win, or the eleminator. But now they offer Walleys for many different kinds of racing that is far separated from the Stock/Super Stock style of racing. Then you have the rules which are far more complicated than they should be, fair teching from div to div etc. The price of manditory spec gas that many feel is not necessary. The list of complaints goes on and on. But, this is the only sport that you can compete on the same track as the professionals, the same day. The intensity of getting one one shot to get it right (elemination rd) and then racer and families who go out of there way to help fellow racers and families in there time of need. We have a choice to race and I for one will race the way I want to with my personal goals, set records, win rd etc. I will never be able to out run the underated combo's but I really enjoy what I choose to do. We have to teach the youger crowd about Stock/Super Stock, displays, ride alongs, more in car camera's etc. Ok I am off my soap box now. Just my .02

[Nick Heath]

Thanks Mike, I'll keep your post in mind! You have the right attitude.

Originally Posted by treessavoy

For the record, Paul and I hit it right on the head. We weren't talking about racer's sons! We were talking about all those out there that don't give a crap about going fast, building a car they can't afford in an economy that doesn't pay them a thing and doesn't have a daddy to help them. They all have $300.00 phones, X boxes and are more interested in how many amp's their stereo pushes than the HP in their cars.

I've taken a few to Grudge night at Gainesville and offered them my PT Cruiser to make some runs but they didn't take me up because they were too busy playing "angry birds" on their phones. They had no interest at all.

JimR

BTW you little snot, both Paul and I were class racing before your dad learned to blow his nose.

OK, let's back up a bit. Let's say there is a younger guy out there right now, who isn't a son of a racer, who has an LS1 Firebird/305 Camaro/5.0 Fox Mustang/etc. and wants to start class racing. But according to you, he should just leave all his junk at home because he's a dumb lazy kid who doesn't care about anything. After all, he's still part of this new generation of screwups, right?

I'm sorry that your trips to Gainesville did not end as you had hoped. Drag racing is always going to be somewhat of a niche interest. You can try to build interest, but if they just aren't interested in cars to begin with, it won't happen. Your blanket statements as a result are flat out ignorant.

Regarding your last point, good for you. Am I supposed to be impressed? The truth is, there are dozens of class racers who have been racing forever that I have TONS of respect for! The difference is, they don't need to thump their chest about it and they sure don't possess such a lousy and condescending attitude! By the way, where in my post did I resort to name calling?

[randy wilson]

Like Dick said, we would have to downgrade our engines, and not all are ready to do that. He's right though, we need some sort of easy to police, spec head, no break-out format. But I doubt anyone is listening. I would welcome it. For example, I started in SS\CS in 86. My first trip was a not so good .13 over. Now, I had raced locally since 71, in a heads up format, so I wasn't a virgin. Went home, did some work on the motor, 170 lbs. over by the way, cause I was running the motor I had, I gave $600 for the used shortblock, 292, with the head allowed at the time the 461x. Sent them to Ron's to be updated, went back and ran .17 under. Now this was back when hitters were .500 under at best. Went back, bought a better chassis, ran .31 under. I'm thrilled. Next thing I know, they allow a different head, the iron bowtie. Wow, $6,600 later from Dave Alisio, I'm running a tenth better, but still only .3 under. We get that combo to run 6 teens in the eighth, set the NHRA, and IHRA 1\8th mile records. Feeling pretty good then, but Wisecarver breaks it by .05 two months later. By new heads, 2 pair from John Haskell, at $8,800 a pair, and back out we go. But alas, the new vortec bowtie is now legal. And we all know what Manns did with that. Now cudos to all these guys, reaching for, and grabbing the performance top spots. I'm not a whiner, and know that's racing. But, what pissed me off is both sanctioning bodies could pick a head, and leave it alone. That personally would have saved all thousands of dollars. That's my purpose of wanting a econo class, that you know every day you will have to work, and scrimp, to get where you want. But you know that the head rule will remain the same. And no, I don't think I'm as smart as the people I mentioned here, or do I think they did anything wrong.

[Mike Pearson]

One of the main problems with class racing is there is no or very limited class racing at the local level. When I started the local track had class races every couple of weeks. Stock, super stock and modified. This is wher the newer guys cut their teeth in class racing. Only the guys that were real fast went to the divisional and national events. The NHRA national and divisional events are the big leagues so its real tough to jump in and be competitive when you are just starting out.
I started at the age of 18. I am 53 now so thats alot of years under my belt. Back when I started it was equally difficult to get started. I started from scratch with my 1968 camaro that was a basket case. I had a couple of mentors that helped me a bit at the beginning. One was Phil Jones. Phil taught me how to build engines and how to fabricate and weld. Unfortunately Phils health took a turn for the worst about 15 years ago and he quit racing and moved away from my local area. Other than that no one was to eager to help a young guy get a car competitive. It really takes hard work and commitment to get where you want to be.
Here in Florida we have the Southern Stock/ Super Stock Assn. This is a great organization of the local racers. This is a perfect example of where to get started in class racing. The indexes are a little softer than the big league.
Some of the local tracks are supportive of our association. Some are not. It would be better for the local tracks if they would work together to get a series for the class racers. This includes all of the classes currently run at the divisional and national level. By having these local events with the other series that are competing at the track you might gain some interest in some new blood.
One thing I can tell you is I did not start out with a big rig and and enclosed trailer and you dont have to have that now. You just need the drive and commitment to jump in and have fun.
I like the rules and guidelines to judge my performance. I had thought about quiting super stock racing and doing some bracket racing but i enjoy the challenge of working within a set of rules. I had sold my engine so I had to start over again. I am not the fastest guy in the class but I sure enjoy what I do.
I have helped my good friend Jay Slane go from being my crew cheif to having his own car. I taught him how to assemble his engine and transmission. Now he does all of his own work on his car. I built his firebird in my garage at home for him. This was very rewarding for me. It took him 10 years to get from a borrowed truck and trailer to a dually and gooseneck with living quarters. Even now with the bad economy its tough for him to keep on racing. We have had lots of fun times together on and off the track. More to come.