Original hemi dart information

[Liteweight]

Originally Posted by JCShiels

Just a clarification Daryl that may help in tracing your car's past, am I correct in stating that prior to 1985 the car was tubbed and the narrow Dana axle installed on relocated springs? The fact that the trunk lid is held down with pins indicates the removal of the hinges/torsion springs when the stock wheel houses were removed. It is interesting that such a simple thing as an extra hood pin could be such a positive indentification point. I can't imagine anyone but the most fussy restorer even trying to repair that hole in the cowl, there would be no point to fill it, so I am convinced that your conclusion about WildFire is correct. I would still like to know what happened to that car, but that is secondary to your quest for the history of your car.

Jim you are correct. The car was mini tubbed. The inners were replaced with tubs & placed against the frame rails, but the outers were left original. Tim Hennessey removed the inners in 1986 & reinstalled original tubs with a filler to still accept a large tire. He also reinstalled all the hinge parts including the torsion bars so the trunk lid is 100% functional.


On a side note, the forward sections of the quarter panel wheel well were also opened to accept taller tires & remain to this day.
Tim Hennessey did an over the top restoration on it in 1986, but I can tell you just about every repaired mod that was done to it. There's very little I don't know bout this thing, cause I've taken it down to a bare shell, & redid everything cept the paint. It wears the same paint that was applied back in 86.
Your right. Something as minute as a hood pin is the difference in finding a cars background. Since these things were old war horses & are 44 years old there is just very little documentation/ pictures on some of these individual cars. You gotta find the small things & compare. I've been searching for bout 10 years for this things history. I think I am now kinda polished in it

liteweight

[JCShiels]

Originally Posted by Liteweight

Charlie
Possible, but not likely. As J Schiels has previously posted Tim & Bob were a small race team with very little backing.They were mechanics in the Town & Country Dodge dealership. When I spoke with Tim, he didn't mention a second car.
A second car probably isn't likely

liteweight

There was no second car, no possible way.

[jimi]

lightweight have you ever seen proof that the brooks lee car is the castaldo car ? proof of restoration , pictures etc.?

[Liteweight]

Something that everyone, including myself is assuming on this thing is that the red & silver that was on it previous to being chemically stripped in 1985 is the same paint that was applied in the 68-70 time frame. We've all been comparing pictures from that era.
Now, remember these were race cars, not show cars. They got beat on. They changed owners many times. What's the chance of this car having the same paint on it in 1985 that it had in 1968?? It's possible, but not likely. Specially since there were wheel well mods that were done to it sometime in the 70's. I am convinced tho, it was silver & red when Vignonia's owned it because of the head count that remember it that way.
Super Stock kinda took a dive in the 70's, & as such there just aren't alot of pictures from that era. Alot of these cars just weren't competitive & they became yesterday's headlines. My car in particular went to bracket racing, so the chance of finding a picture of it in the 70's is probably pretty slim.
I think where I need to concentrate on is locating the owner who had it when it was bracket raced in the mid to late 70's. I gotta find info specifically about the 1977 NED Bracket Nationals. I have contacted the NHRA Guru, Bob Frey to do some digging on this, & am waiting his reply. Anybody reading this have some info they can help me with?. There was a brochure for that event, but I haven't been able to source one yet. I'm thinking there might be a name attached to a 68 Dart that would have been in print.
The other way of doing it is to weed out all the cars that are known/ documented to exist today & start searching for the unknowns. This way would be very difficult tho, as each car would have to be individually sourced. And if Mark Janaky, with all his contacts & vast experience hasn't been able to do it, I probably won't be able to either.
But, anyway here is a list of original Hemi Darts that the whereabouts are not known

Mary Ann Foss ( Go Hummer) OH
Manhatten Speed Shop
Joe Patel (MA)
Bob Banning (VA) stick car ??
Ken Bradley (TX) Second THT car. stick??
Johnny Rivers (MN)
Cookie Duster stick car?
Robert Alton/Tim Wing Dart (MI) WildFire
Tom Spanbauer Dart (WI) (went to CA in about 1970)
Atlantic Dodge (CA)
Colonial Dodge (MI)
Bob Banning Dodge (MD)
Denny Kilbane (OH) (may still be in OH)
Dave Price (CA) (Butch Leal)
Grand Island Dodge (NE)
Cicero Dodge (NY)
The above is from a list of the first 50 cars, & since mine is in that build frame, it'll be in there somewhere. There could also be a couple others due to lack of documentation & hear say, but these are pretty much concrete as of 06.
If anyone can help in ID'ing these, MAN, WOULD I APPRECIATE IT.

liteweight

[Liteweight]

Originally Posted by jimi

lightweight have you ever seen proof that the brooks lee car is the castaldo car ? proof of restoration , pictures etc.?

jimi
I have the same pictures & documentation from Mark Janaky & others that I have provided you with. Mark is very thorough in CORRECT documentation. If there's a question bout something, he'll tell you. If he doesn't know something, he'll tell you. Mark DOES NOT deal with hear say or fiction. If it ain't so he'll tell you
Brook Lee's car IS Castaldo's auto car.
Castaldo's 4 spd was crashed, stripped of usable parts & crushed. There are NO if's, ands, or maybes about any of Castaldo's Darts. There were only 2 & mine IS NOT one of them.
With the pictures I have, & speaking with many people, including Charlie Licatta (who wrenched on Castaldo's cars & has a VERY sharp memory) there is ZERO, 0% chance of my car being ANY of the 2 Castaldo cars.
Jimi we've gone through this many times.

liteweight

[jimi]

calm down i was asking a question because i am interested to know about the other car if it is documented with proof. i am not starting this argument again with you you have your feelings about it and so do i,the difference is i was there, it was in my barn at my shop i used to druel over that car, it was parked right behind my 62 dodge dart wagon in the same barn where i used to work on my car all the time,you need to chill the f out and deal with the fact that some where in all of this i just maybe just be CORRECT!!!!!! i do know that my father had a car that said charlie castaldo on the doors. i think that we have proven the fact that your car was at my shop in the 80's that there are similarities in things that i remember about it but i still want to know what car it was that my father owned that had castaldos name on the doors! maybe parts from the crashed car wound up on another car i dont know and i dont think at this point we ever will, did you ever get the chance to speak with ken wright? about al massarino? he is convinced he knows your car, its where abouts that my dad got it from and alot of other things. like availability of pictures and such. i sent you his ph number months ago.

i know it is hard to tell with theses cars but what is the approximate build # of your dart? 1, 25 , 50? i was told that charlies first car was # 50

[Hemi Moose]

I wanna see a match race between Jimi's '65 A990 Belvedere & Liteweight's '68 L023 Hemi Dart...lol

[Hemi Moose]

Originally Posted by Liteweight

Something that everyone, including myself is assuming on this thing is that the red & silver that was on it previous to being chemically stripped in 1985 is the same paint that was applied in the 68-70 time frame. We've all been comparing pictures from that era.
Now, remember these were race cars, not show cars. They got beat on. They changed owners many times. What's the chance of this car having the same paint on it in 1985 that it had in 1968?? It's possible, but not likely. Specially since there were wheel well mods that were done to it sometime in the 70's. I am convinced tho, it was silver & red when Vignonia's owned it because of the head count that remember it that way.
Super Stock kinda took a dive in the 70's, & as such there just aren't alot of pictures from that era. Alot of these cars just weren't competitive & they became yesterday's headlines. My car in particular went to bracket racing, so the chance of finding a picture of it in the 70's is probably pretty slim.
I think where I need to concentrate on is locating the owner who had it when it was bracket raced in the mid to late 70's. I gotta find info specifically about the 1977 NED Bracket Nationals. I have contacted the NHRA Guru, Bob Frey to do some digging on this, & am waiting his reply. Anybody reading this have some info they can help me with?. There was a brochure for that event, but I haven't been able to source one yet. I'm thinking there might be a name attached to a 68 Dart that would have been in print.
The other way of doing it is to weed out all the cars that are known/ documented to exist today & start searching for the unknowns. This way would be very difficult tho, as each car would have to be individually sourced. And if Mark Janaky, with all his contacts & vast experience hasn't been able to do it, I probably won't be able to either.
But, anyway here is a list of original Hemi Darts that the whereabouts are not known

Mary Ann Foss ( Go Hummer) OH
Manhatten Speed Shop
Joe Patel (MA)
Bob Banning (VA) stick car ??
Ken Bradley (TX) Second THT car. stick??
Johnny Rivers (MN)
Cookie Duster stick car?
Robert Alton/Tim Wing Dart (MI) WildFire
Tom Spanbauer Dart (WI) (went to CA in about 1970)
Atlantic Dodge (CA)
Colonial Dodge (MI)
Bob Banning Dodge (MD)
Denny Kilbane (OH) (may still be in OH)
Dave Price (CA) (Butch Leal)
Grand Island Dodge (NE)
Cicero Dodge (NY)
The above is from a list of the first 50 cars, & since mine is in that build frame, it'll be in there somewhere. There could also be a couple others due to lack of documentation & hear say, but these are pretty much concrete as of 06.
If anyone can help in ID'ing these, MAN, WOULD I APPRECIATE IT.

liteweight

Judging by the first restoration attempt done to this '68 Hemi Dart where they chemically stripped the paint off the car (as seen in the previous photos) this tells me that there was "layers of paint" on this car already!!!

Next, in that list of unaccounted L023's have you even checked to see which one Al Kirschenbaum owned because he had a brand new one in '68 but didn't own it for very long...maybe Bob Frey knows him.

[Hemi Moose]

Here's another old ad with Arlen Vanke's '68 Hemi Barracuda...

[jimi]

Originally Posted by Hemi Moose

Judging by the first restoration attempt done to this '68 Hemi Dart where they chemically stripped the paint off the car (as seen in the previous photos) this tells me that there was "layers of paint" on this car already!!!

Next, in that list of unaccounted L023's have you even checked to see which one Al Kirschenbaum owned because he had a brand new one in '68 but didn't own it for very long...maybe Bob Frey knows him.

Kirschenbaum was from Long Island? And he has a brother as well if I remember correctly. Don't they have a very large collection of mopar parts and s