Ol' Fart's Firebird Fantasy

[oldskool]

Originally Posted by Dwight Southerland

Clegg raced a '73 SD 455 Grand Prix for a while. Cool car.

This sorta sparked my interest. I never knew that the 455SD came in a GP, or anything except Birds. But NHRA allows them in Lemans, GTO, Grand Am, & GP. So, what's the deal ? Did any 455SD's actually come in these other cars ?

http://www.classracerinfo.com/Engine...px?ENGINE=2080

I remember when a mag named the '73 GTO car of the year, when it was announced that it could come with the 455SD.

[Mark Yacavone]

Can't attach the shaker scoop to the hood.
It has to attach to the engine...even with no filter assy.

[oldskool]

OK, I have another question. According to this NHRA spec sheet on the '79 W72 220hp 400 engine, this engine only came with a manual trans. This is also what I've always read.

http://www.classracerinfo.com/Engine...spx?ENGINE=792

However, tho this page says "Notes: Class Limits--Available with Manual transmission only", it also lists the hp factor for an auto trans at 270 for Stock, and 285 for SS/auto. So, does that mean you can or can't run a '79 Bird with a 400 and auto trans ?

It seems that if engines are legal in bodies they never actually came in, then it should be OK to run an auto behind an engine that came only with a stick. They say the '77 W72 400 is legal with an auto, only in a Can Am.

http://www.classracerinfo.com/Engine...spx?ENGINE=765

So if an auto is not legal in the '79, then do you guys think it would do any good to put in a request(or whatever the process is) to get an auto approved for a '79 220hp 400 Bird ? Maybe nobody has ever tried it. If not, would some of you guys who have a little clout with NHRA, please make a proper request for this ?

It seems to me to be a sensible and reasonable request, considering that they will allow almost any auto, besides what came in your car, stall converters, aftermarket blocks, forged pistons & rods, different rear ends, alum heads for some engines, etc, etc, etc.

Some might say, why bother ? Because there were more '79 Birds built than any other year model. Therefore there are more of 'em for sale than any other year, which, on average, will make 'em cheaper to buy. Hey, even if I never race one, it might help somebody else down the line.

If they are already legal and it is just not reflected on this spec sheet, then somebody please tell me where to find that info. Thanks !

[Tony Corley]

I'm no expert on NHRA's rules by any means, but if it in fact only came with a manual trans, then I'm pretty certain you can only run it a s a manual. Otherwise, I would build a 1993 Ford Cobra, (came with manual only), with an automatic. Now whether or not the '79/400 Bird came with an automatic or not, I have no idea. But I do know I had a brand new '79 Bandit Edition in '79 that was an automatic, but it was a 403 Olds engine.

[Dave Ribeiro]

The rules are the rules & that's why no-one runs a 1979 with an auto trans? I tried several times to change the rule, was told that was the only way they came from the Factory with a 400ci pontiac... You can change the nose cone & rear bumper and call it a 1977--1978 ??? Make sure you check the NHRA factored HP first , not the factory HP ? Its 60-70 HP difference !! Go Get-em !

[oldskool]

Originally Posted by Dave Ribeiro

You can change the nose cone & rear bumper and call it a 1977--1978 ??? Make sure you check the NHRA factored HP first , not the factory HP ? Its 60-70 HP difference !! Go Get-em !

Yeah I just checked the sheet for the '77 W-72 400 cars. I mentioned earlier that the Can Am is the only car that could run an auto behind a '77 W-72. But I checked some online info and discovered that the Can Am never came with a stick. So I took another look at the spec sheet. Here's what it says. "Auto only in Can Am". So, earlier, I took that to mean that the Can Am was the only body in which an auto was legal with that engine.

But what they meant was that the Cam Am was legal only with an auto, and not with a stick. The site I checked said they came only with a TH400, and none were produced with a stick. I'm not real familiar with the Can Am, so I'll do a bit more research on 'em. I do like the looks of 'em, for whatever that's worth.

And the hp factor difference is 20hp instead of 60-70.

I just looked at the '78 W-72 specs. The factor is the same as the '77. But there is no note about using a manual only. So, I assume that you can run an auto in a '78. But, the engine is only legal in a Formula or a TA. For '77 it is listed as being legal in the Lemans, including wagons, as well as the Birds and Cam Am. So, one of the '77 Lemans models would probably be the cheapest body you could use, with a W-72 400 / auto.

http://www.classracerinfo.com/Engine...spx?ENGINE=317

http://www.classracerinfo.com/Engine...spx?ENGINE=765


Of the later model 400's I still think the '77 180hp 400, in any body except a Bird is the best low comp 400 combo, at 260hp factor. About the only difference I can see in the 2 motors is cam lift. But, since there is no limit on dur, the cam shouldn't make that much difference. But then I've never run either engine, so I'll leave that call for the experts.

http://www.classracerinfo.com/Engine...spx?ENGINE=764

http://www.classracerinfo.com/Engine...spx?ENGINE=764

[oldskool]

Originally Posted by Tony Corley

I'm no expert on NHRA's rules by any means, but if it in fact only came with a manual trans, then I'm pretty certain you can only run it a s a manual. Otherwise, I would build a 1993 Ford Cobra, (came with manual only), with an automatic. Now whether or not the '79/400 Bird came with an automatic or not, I have no idea. But I do know I had a brand new '79 Bandit Edition in '79 that was an automatic, but it was a 403 Olds engine.

Yeah, the 403 came with an automatic. But the 400 had only a stick. But, all 2nd gen Bird bodies came with autos, with some engines. So, with the Stock rules as liberal as they are today, why not allow any GM auto tranny, with the same number of gears, in any GM body, regardless of which motor is in the car. Just seems like a waste of a fairly cheap source of possible Stocker bodies. Cause there ain't too many guys gonna build a stick car, given the bracket racing nature of today's Stock class..

Have you or somebody else who races the '93 Cobra you are referring to, ever petitioned NHRA to allow an auto for it ?

[Tony Corley]

Originally Posted by oldskool

Yeah, the 403 came with an automatic. But the 400 had only a stick. But, all 2nd gen Bird bodies came with autos, with some engines. So, with the Stock rules as liberal as they are today, why not allow any GM auto tranny, with the same number of gears, in any GM body, regardless of which motor is in the car. Just seems like a waste of a fairly cheap source of possible Stocker bodies. Cause there ain't too many guys gonna build a stick car, given the bracket racing nature of today's Stock class..

Have you or somebody else who races the '93 Cobra you are referring to, ever petitioned NHRA to allow an auto for it ?

I'm not racing a 93 Cobra in Stock. I would if I could run automatic. I am building an '89 Coupe for M/N Stock Auto. Truth is, I'm more of a purist at heart. I like the fact that the cars have to run the basic combo as produced.