Ford vs Chevy Build-up - Page 40

west coast · 04-30-2015, 10:52 AM

Rich looks like you created some of your own problems should be easy to fix with some time. I believe you o2 sensors are daisy chained together in the wiring so if one is not plugged in the other one will not work. Some of the years of cars are wired differently on this circuit. if you are missing the engine coolant sensor you will have problems, your after start enrichment table is like a choke will not change your fuel going to the motor as it warms up. Have not used the system you are working with just the stock computer with a chip. hope this helps. good luck

black88coupe · 04-30-2015, 11:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HandOverFist

ECT - I assume that would require a sensor which is no longer on the engine lol. I'm betting it screwed into a port in the lower intake on the driver side...you saying I must have it for the engine to run properly? Is this the sensor here? Can it be installed in the intake instead of that tubing?

That sensor in the pic is the coolant temp sensor for the computer. There is a second temp sensor that is for the gauge in the dash (normally goes in the drivers side front of the intake and has a small "stud" sticking out of the top for the gauge hookup). You can eliminate that coolant tube if you like and put the sensor right into the intake.

Tony Corley · 04-30-2015, 11:01 AM

Put the ECT sensor in the intake where the heater tube came out of. The o2 sensors are not causing the current issue by themselves, but will cause tons of other tuning issues.
So,
Reroute fuel
Add ECT sensor
Add o2 sensor

Should correct the issues, possibly have to lower fuel pressure a little, but maybe not, every engine is different.

black88coupe · 04-30-2015, 11:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HandOverFist

Not having both factory O2 sensors hooked up is causing problems I am experiencing?

You need both hooked up for the factory EEC. Not sure on the aftermarket setups.

HandOverFist · 04-30-2015, 11:26 AM

Ok guys - I will re-plumb the fuel system to mimic the second diagram, add the coolant sensor and install the other factory O2 sensor. If that corrects the current problem I'll add another bung for the wideband sensor. I will try to make some screenshots of the controller readings.

partsbob67 · 04-30-2015, 09:57 PM

with the pms , you can tune and run it without 02s. I haven't had them in my car for 4-5 years.

HandOverFist · 05-01-2015, 01:33 AM

Somehow I got it starting/running smoothly atm. Extended the harness for the temp sensor and installed it directly in the lower intake. I can see it registering in the PMS controller now. Both factory O2 sensors installed, but I have yet to see any readings on the PMS screen. Not sure if the MAP sensor is functioning. I don't know how to tell if the IAC is fuctioning or not. 12 degrees locked in with the spout connector out, then plugged back in.

I'll have to order a fitting for the fuel rail before re-plumbing the system. Idles around 1350rpm and does not stall when shifted into gear. I will need to get a weld-on bung fitting so I can re-install the wideband O2.

While waiting for fittings I need to figure out why the new alternator has no output.

Dave Noll · 05-01-2015, 03:24 AM

While I'm not familiar with the screen output on that scanner, seen plenty others. Is that the IAT reading -30' ? Is it hooked up yet ? The first pic shows the engine @ 980RPM (i think), A heated O2 sensor (3 or 4 wire) should be showing voltage fairly quickly. 170' is more than enough time. Will that PMS let you lock out different inputs ?

fordteacherguy · 05-01-2015, 08:27 AM

Yep,

I agree with Dave...Looks like Intake Air Temp is way off at -30 .....that will make it way rich. Usually default is -40 when they are unhooked but check for the open plug. IAT sensor looks like your coolant sensor except the end is not sealed with brass, it has a thermistor exposed to get air temp. Should be screwed into #5 intake port or you can move it into the intake upper plenum by using one of the plugs located on the underside of the intake. O2s are not used in the base calculations for fuel..they are more like trimmers when the system is warm and in closed loop so they are not players on initial starts. I'm curious about the -29HG ..is that the.baro reading? Usually that is just expressed as a positive #

Basics to get it running TP, ECT, IAT, BARO, Fuel Pressure, base timing. Looks like you are getting closer!

SSGT Mustang · 05-01-2015, 08:28 AM

Do the one-wire mod to the alternator. It's cheap to do, more reliable and safer. You will be able to diagnose any alternator problem very quickly.

04-30-2015, 10:52 AM	#391
west coast Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Rainy Washington Posts: 609 Likes: 12 Liked 223 Times in 73 Posts	Re: Ford vs Chevy Build-up Rich looks like you created some of your own problems should be easy to fix with some time. I believe you o2 sensors are daisy chained together in the wiring so if one is not plugged in the other one will not work. Some of the years of cars are wired differently on this circuit. if you are missing the engine coolant sensor you will have problems, your after start enrichment table is like a choke will not change your fuel going to the motor as it warms up. Have not used the system you are working with just the stock computer with a chip. hope this helps. good luck __________________ James Boyce 6052 K/SA Stock National record holder 2015,2018,2 times in 2022,2023

04-30-2015, 11:01 AM	#393
Tony Corley Member Join Date: Nov 2011 Posts: 264 Likes: 42 Liked 61 Times in 25 Posts	Re: Ford vs Chevy Build-up Put the ECT sensor in the intake where the heater tube came out of. The o2 sensors are not causing the current issue by themselves, but will cause tons of other tuning issues. So, Reroute fuel Add ECT sensor Add o2 sensor Should correct the issues, possibly have to lower fuel pressure a little, but maybe not, every engine is different. Last edited by Tony Corley; 04-30-2015 at 11:09 AM.

04-30-2015, 11:26 AM	#395
HandOverFist VIP Member Join Date: Oct 2013 Location: Gulf Breeze, FL Posts: 1,651 Likes: 8 Liked 33 Times in 16 Posts	Re: Ford vs Chevy Build-up Ok guys - I will re-plumb the fuel system to mimic the second diagram, add the coolant sensor and install the other factory O2 sensor. If that corrects the current problem I'll add another bung for the wideband sensor. I will try to make some screenshots of the controller readings. __________________ Rich Taylor I/SA - 321

04-30-2015, 09:57 PM	#396
partsbob67 Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: rohnert park,ca Posts: 414 Likes: 11 Liked 79 Times in 11 Posts	Re: Ford vs Chevy Build-up with the pms , you can tune and run it without 02s. I haven't had them in my car for 4-5 years. __________________ bob beals 7244

05-01-2015, 01:33 AM	#397
HandOverFist VIP Member Join Date: Oct 2013 Location: Gulf Breeze, FL Posts: 1,651 Likes: 8 Liked 33 Times in 16 Posts	Re: Ford vs Chevy Build-up Somehow I got it starting/running smoothly atm. Extended the harness for the temp sensor and installed it directly in the lower intake. I can see it registering in the PMS controller now. Both factory O2 sensors installed, but I have yet to see any readings on the PMS screen. Not sure if the MAP sensor is functioning. I don't know how to tell if the IAC is fuctioning or not. 12 degrees locked in with the spout connector out, then plugged back in. I'll have to order a fitting for the fuel rail before re-plumbing the system. Idles around 1350rpm and does not stall when shifted into gear. I will need to get a weld-on bung fitting so I can re-install the wideband O2. While waiting for fittings I need to figure out why the new alternator has no output. __________________ Rich Taylor I/SA - 321

05-01-2015, 03:24 AM	#398
Dave Noll Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Div. 6, Eastern, WA Posts: 710 Likes: 2,677 Liked 240 Times in 112 Posts	Re: Ford vs Chevy Build-up While I'm not familiar with the screen output on that scanner, seen plenty others. Is that the IAT reading -30' ? Is it hooked up yet ? The first pic shows the engine @ 980RPM (i think), A heated O2 sensor (3 or 4 wire) should be showing voltage fairly quickly. 170' is more than enough time. Will that PMS let you lock out different inputs ? __________________ Dave Noll, EF/S ,?/SA 6526

05-01-2015, 08:27 AM	#399
fordteacherguy Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Federal Way, WA Posts: 238 Likes: 38 Liked 160 Times in 51 Posts	Re: Ford vs Chevy Build-up Yep, I agree with Dave...Looks like Intake Air Temp is way off at -30 .....that will make it way rich. Usually default is -40 when they are unhooked but check for the open plug. IAT sensor looks like your coolant sensor except the end is not sealed with brass, it has a thermistor exposed to get air temp. Should be screwed into #5 intake port or you can move it into the intake upper plenum by using one of the plugs located on the underside of the intake. O2s are not used in the base calculations for fuel..they are more like trimmers when the system is warm and in closed loop so they are not players on initial starts. I'm curious about the -29HG ..is that the.baro reading? Usually that is just expressed as a positive # Basics to get it running TP, ECT, IAT, BARO, Fuel Pressure, base timing. Looks like you are getting closer! Attached Thumbnails __________________ Brian Thompson NHRA Stock / Super Stock Class P/SA 6665 SS/MA 6665

05-01-2015, 08:28 AM	#400
SSGT Mustang Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Jersey Posts: 359 Likes: 35 Liked 204 Times in 54 Posts	Re: Ford vs Chevy Build-up Do the one-wire mod to the alternator. It's cheap to do, more reliable and safer. You will be able to diagnose any alternator problem very quickly.