HP Reduction Request - Page 3

Dick Butler · 03-06-2017, 06:25 PM

Interesting discussion if you are continually trying to find a "new" Dime rocket. I am not sure how creating more low hp rated combinations increases participation except experienced guys can keep qualifying #1 with more and more un heard of combinations. trucks, turbo vans etc.
If the plan is to lower costs to attract new blood increase the restrictions on the Motors. Create a sealed motor class. Limit the amount it takes to create a base line can which can be run in Stock or SS.
Allow pure stock cars in eliminator would be quicker way to increase participation.

Billy Nees · 03-06-2017, 08:02 PM

Dick, it's not just the next "Dime Rocket. Stock Eliminator, whether we like it or not, is by and large a Nostalgia class today. What harm is there in dropping the HP factors on ALL of the older combos (think what NHRA did for the 383s and 426s) so that if somebody wants to build a 389 tri-carb GTO or Olds or 348/409 Chevy they can and at least be somewhat competitive?

Mike Jones · 03-06-2017, 08:11 PM

Oldskool asked: So, that brings up a question which should be in line with this thread. For most GM carb engines, 350 cubes & bigger, aprox how much less power is possible when only a 2-barrel is allowed ?
Q-jet to a 2GC was -.5 or so, for me

I wish they would give Ray Whitney some HP help
1962 Chevy wagon 409/425 4 speed, struggles to run the index in G/S
Everybody loves the car, and what would it hurt?

Mike A114
P/SA

Timetraveler · 03-06-2017, 09:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nmbr1GMfan

Honestly, from the perspective of someone on the outside looking in, Most current racers in the bracket classes don't understand class racing AT ALL. I was surprised when I asked questions about S/SS how many racers couldn't tell me the first thing about them. Now the people that do run the class, well they aren't talking either because they aren't giving away any secrets. Case in point, I have a 2005 GTO I could run as an 04 and probably be moderately competitive, now there isn't many of these out there but first on the agenda would be a solid axle swap, when I contacted people involved with the current cars in the class I got vague answers and a "no pictures" reply. Now I get it for sure, but it sure makes me think a S/G car might be looking good at this point. Also... and this is a big one, completely take away the cost of the car and look at the cost to get there, race, then get home plus the time off work, let alone the countless hours to hone the combo, I can easily see how these classes would be unobtainable to most.

If you want information on stock combinations go to a division or national meet and spend some time with the people who run your combination. I think you will be surprised at how much they are willing to help. I remember one time I was racing at a national meet and my Carter fuel pump quit. I caught hell from the guy next to me for not running a Holley. After he helped me put on a spare that he had he told me to run the same thing that the rest of the stockers ran and I would never have to worry about not having parts.

Nmbr1GMfan · 03-06-2017, 11:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Timetraveler

If you want information on stock combinations go to a division or national meet and spend some time with the people who run your combination. I think you will be surprised at how much they are willing to help. I remember one time I was racing at a national meet and my Carter fuel pump quit. I caught hell from the guy next to me for not running a Holley. After he helped me put on a spare that he had he told me to run the same thing that the rest of the stockers ran and I would never have to worry about not having parts.

Great info, thanks. Haven't started running class yet, maybe next year.

Gordie Kissner · 03-07-2017, 02:23 AM

I applaud your efforts Billy, Dwight and Mark! I do believe it would bring more affordable,unique and hopefully competitive combinations out of the back corners of barns/shops/garages to the track.

Here in the NW there are still good affordable 70's-80's cars that pop up regularly for sale. Thanks to Dwight's site its pretty easy to determine how competitive a combination might be.

I have a brother who has always been a bracket racer kicking around the idea of getting into class racing..and my 12yr old son and I are already working on a U/SA starter combination for him..and that 318-2bbl from the late 70's needs all the help it can get! Good thing there's a 4bbl version as an option down the road! lol

Gordie Kissner · 03-07-2017, 02:35 AM

Quote:

I wish they would give Ray Whitney some HP help
1962 Chevy wagon 409/425 4 speed, struggles to run the index in G/S
Everybody loves the car, and what would it hurt?

Mike A114
P/SA

And I absolulely agree with this for any older combinations to get more of them out to the track..especially 1965 and older!

John Duzac · 03-07-2017, 03:53 AM

I run a 67 Camaro with a 302 engine, which is rated at 290 h.p. From the factory. This engine is now rated at 309 h.p. Some combinations have had a reduction of 63 h.p. And it makes me wonder how on earth can any combo have their factory h.p. Reduced that much. It makes me wonder if some folks in Glendora are smoking crack! I can understand a 10 or 12 h.p. Reduction. But 63 hp! That's a bit much. There are guys that run the 302 combination that actually need a reduction in the 309 h.p. rating. I'd love to have 10 h.p. Taken off my combo. That's never going to happen. When we built the car, we did everything humanly possible to make it weigh as little as possible. I can get below the minimum weight in D/S. I cannot get below the C/S minimum weight to take advantage of any h.p. Reduction should that ever happen. Farmer Desmuke would roll over in his grave if he knew about the B.S. That's going on with N.H.R.A. As far as the factoring system, the 302 is carrying h.p. From Tony Pizzi when he ran a 1968 Camaro back in 1969. I was responsible for a 4 h.p. hit from 2009. That 4 h.p. Hurt. Think about a 63 h.p. Reduction and how much it would help. There is no way taking that much h.p. Off a combo can be justified.

Dave Noll · 03-07-2017, 05:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nmbr1GMfan

Did you come from another class Dave or did you jump right in the stock pool?

Bracket raced mostly street cars. I did not buy an existing Stocker. I am building it myself.

GTOMayhem · 03-07-2017, 07:59 AM

Gordie, you have a PM.

Rick Thomason
GTOMayhem

03-06-2017, 06:25 PM	#21
Dick Butler VIP Member Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Richmond Indiana Posts: 1,196 Likes: 5 Liked 32 Times in 19 Posts	Re: HP Reduction Request Interesting discussion if you are continually trying to find a "new" Dime rocket. I am not sure how creating more low hp rated combinations increases participation except experienced guys can keep qualifying #1 with more and more un heard of combinations. trucks, turbo vans etc. If the plan is to lower costs to attract new blood increase the restrictions on the Motors. Create a sealed motor class. Limit the amount it takes to create a base line can which can be run in Stock or SS. Allow pure stock cars in eliminator would be quicker way to increase participation.

03-06-2017, 08:02 PM	#22
Billy Nees VIP Member Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: On a hilltop in Pa. Posts: 4,487 Likes: 3,587 Liked 7,684 Times in 1,732 Posts	Re: HP Reduction Request Dick, it's not just the next "Dime Rocket. Stock Eliminator, whether we like it or not, is by and large a Nostalgia class today. What harm is there in dropping the HP factors on ALL of the older combos (think what NHRA did for the 383s and 426s) so that if somebody wants to build a 389 tri-carb GTO or Olds or 348/409 Chevy they can and at least be somewhat competitive? __________________ Billy Nees 1188 STK, SS I'm not spending 100K to win 2K

03-06-2017, 08:11 PM	#23
Mike Jones VIP Member Join Date: Apr 2012 Location: Connecticut Posts: 1,125 Likes: 1,179 Liked 684 Times in 289 Posts	Re: HP Reduction Request Oldskool asked: So, that brings up a question which should be in line with this thread. For most GM carb engines, 350 cubes & bigger, aprox how much less power is possible when only a 2-barrel is allowed ? Q-jet to a 2GC was -.5 or so, for me I wish they would give Ray Whitney some HP help 1962 Chevy wagon 409/425 4 speed, struggles to run the index in G/S Everybody loves the car, and what would it hurt? Mike A114 P/SA

03-07-2017, 02:23 AM	#26
Gordie Kissner Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Emmett, Idaho Posts: 221 Likes: 1,312 Liked 18 Times in 10 Posts	Re: HP Reduction Request I applaud your efforts Billy, Dwight and Mark! I do believe it would bring more affordable,unique and hopefully competitive combinations out of the back corners of barns/shops/garages to the track. Here in the NW there are still good affordable 70's-80's cars that pop up regularly for sale. Thanks to Dwight's site its pretty easy to determine how competitive a combination might be. I have a brother who has always been a bracket racer kicking around the idea of getting into class racing..and my 12yr old son and I are already working on a U/SA starter combination for him..and that 318-2bbl from the late 70's needs all the help it can get! Good thing there's a 4bbl version as an option down the road! lol __________________ Gordie Kissner SS 6010 STK 6010

03-07-2017, 03:53 AM	#28
John Duzac Member Join Date: May 2005 Location: Covington, La Posts: 311 Likes: 63 Liked 83 Times in 20 Posts	Re: HP Reduction Request I run a 67 Camaro with a 302 engine, which is rated at 290 h.p. From the factory. This engine is now rated at 309 h.p. Some combinations have had a reduction of 63 h.p. And it makes me wonder how on earth can any combo have their factory h.p. Reduced that much. It makes me wonder if some folks in Glendora are smoking crack! I can understand a 10 or 12 h.p. Reduction. But 63 hp! That's a bit much. There are guys that run the 302 combination that actually need a reduction in the 309 h.p. rating. I'd love to have 10 h.p. Taken off my combo. That's never going to happen. When we built the car, we did everything humanly possible to make it weigh as little as possible. I can get below the minimum weight in D/S. I cannot get below the C/S minimum weight to take advantage of any h.p. Reduction should that ever happen. Farmer Desmuke would roll over in his grave if he knew about the B.S. That's going on with N.H.R.A. As far as the factoring system, the 302 is carrying h.p. From Tony Pizzi when he ran a 1968 Camaro back in 1969. I was responsible for a 4 h.p. hit from 2009. That 4 h.p. Hurt. Think about a 63 h.p. Reduction and how much it would help. There is no way taking that much h.p. Off a combo can be justified. __________________ John Duzac D/S 4448 STK Last edited by John Duzac; 03-07-2017 at 03:58 AM.

03-07-2017, 07:59 AM	#30
GTOMayhem Member Join Date: Oct 2014 Posts: 172 Likes: 673 Liked 22 Times in 14 Posts	Re: HP Reduction Request Gordie, you have a PM. Rick Thomason GTOMayhem