Best Pontiac Powered Stockers

[oldskool]

OK, I think I mentioned Ryan Warter's '75 Formy, & even posted a video of his win at the Northwest Nats.

The only '76 Bird Stocker I remember ever seeing belonged to Mike Morgan. He won the K/SA class with it, at the 2014 US Nats.

https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...r2014#indextop

After that, Mike sold the car & bought the '77 350 powered SS Formy from Sal Piacentini.

Last I knew, the '76 Stocker belonged to Kevin Love.

To that car I'll add some '77 Bird Stockers I've known of, that have run this century. Don't know the history of most of 'em. I suspect that most have changed hands one or more times.

I'll start with 2 nat record holders. One belonged to Bill Edgeworth, the other to Dave Ribeiro. The next one belongs to Chad Smith. It's the former Paul Dilcher car.

The next 3 were driven by Tommy Pettigrew, Rob Holmes, & Mike Moyer.

The last one is driven by Dylan Biondo. It's been in the Biondo family for years. I know Sal & Peter drove it some.

We've talked about some of these cars. Maybe some of you guys can give us the history of some of 'em.

One thing I DO know. These cars, with the 400 engine have really taken a severe hit. I think it's really sorta overkill, to add 23 hp to an engine, just because it's in a Firebird body. Seems to make more common sense to factor the engine the same, no matter what body it's in. But, I've already said that. And I'm sure others have said the same about other brand engines.

http://www.classracerinfo.com/Engine...4&MAKE=Pontiac

[oldskool]

At this 2001 Vegas Summit Nats race, Neil Smedley was #1 qualifier @ 1.305 under, & won the race, with his 301T '81 Bird ! That's a pretty impressive Pontiac sweep !

https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...r2001#indextop

https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...r2001#indextop

I know VERY little about those 301T engines. About all I know is that the turbo cranks are stronger, & the blocks with 301T on the side, are stronger than the earlier blocks that didn't have 301T on the side.

I'd like for Rick Unterseh, & others who know about 'em, to post all the info you can share about racing a 301T car.

I assume that anyone who has seriously raced one has blown some up.

[oldskool]

Now for the non-turbo 301 Stockers.

I assume that you will also need both the turbo crank & block.

The '79 Lemans that Billy Nees has is the only serious non-turbo 301 powered Stocker I've ever heard of.

He's shared info about it before. Don't know if he'd be willing to share any of what he's learned, here, or not.

I do remember him saying that he & Don went thru quite a few cams before they got one that worked good. And he said those 301T blocks & cranks are getting real scarce.

Any non turbo 301 drag racing info that anyone can share would be appreciated.

[Adam Strang]

I do my own stuff with help from Dwayne Porter at Porter Racing Heads,Dale Spooner at Motion Machine in Danville Virginia and Joe Woodward. Been doing most everything myself since I was a teenager and I'm not going to change now.

[Billy Nees]

Originally Posted by oldskool

I assume that anyone who has seriously raced one has blown some up.

That would be a mild understatement!

[oldskool]

Maybe Billy can help with this one.

Are there any 350 or larger 2-barrel Pontiac combos that might be competitive, or at least might not be too hard to make run under the index ?

I don't personally know of any 2-barrel Pontiac Stockers.

I'll look up some specs for some 2-barrel Pontiac engines & see what turns up.

Wow ! Apparently VERY few have ever tried to run a Pontiac 2-barrel engine. For the early years they were just rated whatever Pontiac had 'em rated. The only factors I see that were changed were for the '73 & '74 350. It changed to 210hp, in 2002. Maybe somebody tried this combo & asked for a reduction, & got it. From what I see, those are the only years you'd have a chance. The factors for the early 350's were more than for a '77 400 4-barrel engine, at 265hp. And the 400 2-barrel factors were even higher, at 290hp. Those 290hp engines only came in big cars.

http://www.classracerinfo.com/Engine...5&MAKE=Pontiac

There was a 255hp 400 that came in '67 GTO's.

http://www.classracerinfo.com/Engine...8&MAKE=Pontiac

So, what about it guys ? Could you get a '73-'74 2-barrel 350 under the index, at 210hp ? I don't know how much power you can get with those little 2 barrel carbs. Would like to get some input from some of you GM 2-barrel racers.

http://www.classracerinfo.com/Engine...4&MAKE=Pontiac

[Billy Nees]

Originally Posted by oldskool

So, what about it guys ? could you get a '73-'74 2-barrel 350 under the index, at 210hp ?

For a 350 and larger combo, the only decent one would be this one. It's not without it's "issues" though. It doesn't have a whole bunch of compression and it's the only one of the GM 350s that uses a 2G carb with a 1.18 venturi (same carb as a 305). All of the others have at least the 1.25 venturi 2G.
But ya know, for some reason when ya look at the specs and the pieces that go into a Pontiac, they always seem to run better than they should.
Oh BTW, as far as I know, all 301 cranks are the same.

[oldskool]

"...as far as I know, all 301 cranks are the same."

Have never seen a 301 crank. Just going by what I've read online.

Here's what I usually read about the 301T crank.

"...a rolled fillet crankshaft..."

Don't know what that means nor if the T crank is actually different from the non-T crank, or not.

Another article describes the turbo crank this way.

"...installed a sturdier crank with pressure-treated fillets..."

[oldskool]

Originally Posted by Billy Nees

For a 350 and larger combo, the only decent one would be this one. It's not without it's "issues" though. It doesn't have a whole bunch of compression and it's the only one of the GM 350s that uses a 2G carb with a 1.18 venturi (same carb as a 305). All of the others have at least the 1.25 venturi 2G.

OK, I'd like to explore this 2-barrel thing a little more. Assuming that several of you Chevy guys have run 2-barrel combos at some point.

So, what I'd like to zero in on is the power potential, of the smaller carb with the 1.186 venturi vs the larger carb, with the 1.25 venturi.

(1) For those of you who have tried both size carbs on your sbc engine, how much of a power or ET difference did the bigger carb make ?

(2) Lookin at Class Racer Info site, I see that a '73 350 2-barrel sbc is factored at 224hp, in an F or X body, when using factory heads.

http://www.classracerinfo.com/Engine...MAKE=Chevrolet

The '73 350 Pontiac is factored at 210hp.

http://www.classracerinfo.com/Engine...3&MAKE=Pontiac

But, as Billy said, it has less compression & a smaller carb. Just makes sense that this size engine has more power potential, if it has more CR & a bigger carb. Obviously, this is assuming that the 2-barrel carb would be the limiting factor, or "choke point" of a 350 cube engine.

I assume the increased CR & larger carb would definitely give the sbc engine more power potential. I'm guessing that those 2 advantages would more than make up for the 14hp difference. But, how much more ?

I assume there are racers out there running this combo, especially in a Nova. So, for you GM guys who have done a lot of testing & racing, with 2-barrel carbs, please consider these differences & let us know if you think this Pontiac engine has the potential to at least run safely under the car's index. Don't know if the body would make a difference. But we'll assume a Ventura, which would be similar to the Nova for this question.

After all these years, I assume there have been lots of dyno & drag strip testing of different 2-barrel carbs on sbc engines. Any links to any of the results of some of this testing that might show the power potential difference between small & large 2-barrels ?