Best Pontiac Powered Stockers

oldskool · 02-05-2020, 08:39 AM

Brought up this subject on the SS thread. Thought I'd inquire some more here.

Most all Stock class racers know about the "acid porting"(or whatever it's called nowadays) of Stocker heads, to increase flow and allow more power.

I assume that it was at one time illegal, but some guys got so good at doing it that it was sometimes hard for a younger, inexperienced tech guy to tell. So, I assume that NHRA just told the tech guys to let it slide. At that point, I assume that lots more guys started having it done, and head flow got even better, to the point that for many engines, if you don't have the latest, greatest head job technology applied to your heads, you can't hope to go really quick.

I also assume that's one of the reasons why the same combos that have been beat on for many years just keep getting quicker & quicker.

So, now that almost "everybody is doin it", aprox what is the cost to have the latest Stocker tricks applied to Stocker iron heads ? Are we talkin maybe $5,000 ? More ?

For you guys who have run Pontiac powered Stockers for a long time, how much difference in ET potential is there between as-cast iron heads, with the correct valve job done, and the heads that have had the full max-power Stocker head treatment done ?

Are we talkin a full sec ? 2 sec ? or ?

For the popular Pontiac 350, 400 & 455 Pontiac combos, what would ya'll say is the minimum head work that would have to be done to as-cast iron heads, just to make enuff power to run barely under the index ?

I know this seems like a stupid question, to many here. But, not everybody who loves Stocker racing has mega-bucks to spend on it. I know that the days of just driving your street car in the gate & being able to win a race are long gone.

But, I'm trying to see if there is a way to build a Pontiac combo that will not cost mega-bucks. I remember posting that I saw Don Turk's car for sale, for $10, 500. And, I've seen other race-ready, quick cars for less than $30k. So, for guys who can do most of there own work, there has got to be a way to build a slow Pontiac Stocker, for a very reasonable price. Obviously, $5,000 or more for head work, will increase the cost of that build, quite a bit. So, I'm just trying to see if one can be built without spending those big bucks on head work.

I remember the low budget build thread, that Brent Flynn did here, a few years back. I'm gonna go back & see what he did for heads.

http://classracer.com/classforum/sho...&postcount=222

So, as of early 2016, Brent did not have high dollar heads. Said he only had about $4k in his engine, with some cheap used rods/pistons. As mentioned, Adam Strang ran 10's with TRW pistons. They cost less than $350 now. And the legal 760g Eagle rods are less than $400.

http://classracer.com/classforum/sho...&postcount=228

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Speed-Pro-T...nd!71251!US!-1

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Eagle-CRS66...kAAOSwl7NaqCjn

At that time, he wanted to have some heads done, that would have cost $2-$3k.

Any useful insite into building a low(lower) budget, slow Pontiac Stocker, would be appreciated.

Billy Nees · 02-05-2020, 08:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by oldskool

Any useful insite into building a low(lower) budget, slow Pontiac Stocker, would be appreciated.

http://classracer.com/classforum/showthread.php?t=44903

Ya know, as far as the other stuff, "Gentlemen don't tell".

oldskool · 02-05-2020, 01:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Billy Nees

http://classracer.com/classforum/showthread.php?t=44903

Ya know, as far as the other stuff, "Gentlemen don't tell".

Never thought about anybody racing with a Dualjet. Have you had an opportunity to get one working right, for racing ? Are there lots of Stockers running a Dualjet, nowadays ?

Billy Nees · 02-05-2020, 01:54 PM

I think that the 1K car ran OK for what it was. I never really spent the time to completely sort it out.
The only dualjet combo that I know of running right now would be the 267 Chevys.

oldskool · 02-05-2020, 04:15 PM

Just got an Email back from the Butlers. They don't do Stocker engine builds either.

They recommend Mike McKinney, in Indiana. I know that Mike did a lot of racing with Pontiacs. Didn't know he was building Stocker engines for others. Found his FB page, & sent a friend request. Not much posted there, so he may not even use it. His son Marty is on my friends list. But, I've posted & ask him a question. There has been no reply & nothing posted on his page since.

So, anybody have contact info for Mike ?

I found a couple of pics. One shows Mike driving the Hard Times '68 Bird that was Truman Fields' car that he won the '73 US Nats with. Mike then won the '77 US Nats with it. The pic shows the car at the Gators. It was an article in a 1979 newspaper. It said that Mike had won a race in '77. I assume they were referring to that US Nats win. But, I'm not sure. So, did Mike also win the Gators one year ?

The other pic I found is of a For Sale ad for Truman Fields' Hard Times Bird. Says it was a D/S record holder, which would run 11.50's. price $3500.

oldskool · 02-05-2020, 10:56 AM

OK, I found something on Brent's thread that I wanna ask ya'll about.

http://classracer.com/classforum/sho...&postcount=250

I know that the Shubeck lifters, & I assume the tool steel lifters, are quite expensive.

BUT, he mentioned the Delphi lifters, that have the hardened foot. I wanna be sure as to exactly which lifters that is referring to.

The reason I'm interested is because I bought some Jegs lifters, because they were cheap & because they were said to be made in the USA. They cost under $50.

They do have the low groove, denoting the hardened foot.

So, I'd like to know if these are the lifters that were referred to in the linked post. OR, are we talking about some special lifter that Delphi makes for racing ?

Below are pics of my Delphi/Jegs lifters. I took one apart to show the guts. I also bought some real snap rings, from Fastenal, to replace the flimsy wire retainers the lifters come with.

By the way, Brent posted that he bought Rhoads V-max Super Lube lifters for his Stocker engine. Those now cost nearly $200. Rhoads says they use Hylift Johnson lifters cores, then modify 'em to make Rhoads lifters.

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/r...w/make/pontiac

For a bigger cam, he was gonna have the cam & lifters "coated". So, how much does it cost to have a cam & lifters coated, nowadays. And how much extra life will it give to the cam ?

02-05-2020, 08:39 AM	#1
oldskool VIP Member Join Date: Dec 2014 Location: The Land of Bayous, Boudin & Crawfish Posts: 1,668 Likes: 223 Liked 747 Times in 362 Posts	Re: Best Pontiac Powered Stockers Brought up this subject on the SS thread. Thought I'd inquire some more here. Most all Stock class racers know about the "acid porting"(or whatever it's called nowadays) of Stocker heads, to increase flow and allow more power. I assume that it was at one time illegal, but some guys got so good at doing it that it was sometimes hard for a younger, inexperienced tech guy to tell. So, I assume that NHRA just told the tech guys to let it slide. At that point, I assume that lots more guys started having it done, and head flow got even better, to the point that for many engines, if you don't have the latest, greatest head job technology applied to your heads, you can't hope to go really quick. I also assume that's one of the reasons why the same combos that have been beat on for many years just keep getting quicker & quicker. So, now that almost "everybody is doin it", aprox what is the cost to have the latest Stocker tricks applied to Stocker iron heads ? Are we talkin maybe $5,000 ? More ? For you guys who have run Pontiac powered Stockers for a long time, how much difference in ET potential is there between as-cast iron heads, with the correct valve job done, and the heads that have had the full max-power Stocker head treatment done ? Are we talkin a full sec ? 2 sec ? or ? For the popular Pontiac 350, 400 & 455 Pontiac combos, what would ya'll say is the minimum head work that would have to be done to as-cast iron heads, just to make enuff power to run barely under the index ? I know this seems like a stupid question, to many here. But, not everybody who loves Stocker racing has mega-bucks to spend on it. I know that the days of just driving your street car in the gate & being able to win a race are long gone. But, I'm trying to see if there is a way to build a Pontiac combo that will not cost mega-bucks. I remember posting that I saw Don Turk's car for sale, for $10, 500. And, I've seen other race-ready, quick cars for less than $30k. So, for guys who can do most of there own work, there has got to be a way to build a slow Pontiac Stocker, for a very reasonable price. Obviously, $5,000 or more for head work, will increase the cost of that build, quite a bit. So, I'm just trying to see if one can be built without spending those big bucks on head work. I remember the low budget build thread, that Brent Flynn did here, a few years back. I'm gonna go back & see what he did for heads. http://classracer.com/classforum/sho...&postcount=222 So, as of early 2016, Brent did not have high dollar heads. Said he only had about $4k in his engine, with some cheap used rods/pistons. As mentioned, Adam Strang ran 10's with TRW pistons. They cost less than $350 now. And the legal 760g Eagle rods are less than $400. http://classracer.com/classforum/sho...&postcount=228 https://www.ebay.com/itm/Speed-Pro-T...nd!71251!US!-1 https://www.ebay.com/itm/Eagle-CRS66...kAAOSwl7NaqCjn At that time, he wanted to have some heads done, that would have cost $2-$3k. Any useful insite into building a low(lower) budget, slow Pontiac Stocker, would be appreciated. Last edited by oldskool; 02-05-2020 at 11:35 AM.

02-05-2020, 01:54 PM	#4
Billy Nees VIP Member Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: On a hilltop in Pa. Posts: 4,497 Likes: 3,600 Liked 7,773 Times in 1,742 Posts	Re: Best Pontiac Powered Stockers I think that the 1K car ran OK for what it was. I never really spent the time to completely sort it out. The only dualjet combo that I know of running right now would be the 267 Chevys. __________________ Billy Nees 1188 STK, SS I'm not spending 100K to win 2K

02-05-2020, 04:15 PM	#5
oldskool VIP Member Join Date: Dec 2014 Location: The Land of Bayous, Boudin & Crawfish Posts: 1,668 Likes: 223 Liked 747 Times in 362 Posts	Re: Best Pontiac Powered Stockers Just got an Email back from the Butlers. They don't do Stocker engine builds either. They recommend Mike McKinney, in Indiana. I know that Mike did a lot of racing with Pontiacs. Didn't know he was building Stocker engines for others. Found his FB page, & sent a friend request. Not much posted there, so he may not even use it. His son Marty is on my friends list. But, I've posted & ask him a question. There has been no reply & nothing posted on his page since. So, anybody have contact info for Mike ? I found a couple of pics. One shows Mike driving the Hard Times '68 Bird that was Truman Fields' car that he won the '73 US Nats with. Mike then won the '77 US Nats with it. The pic shows the car at the Gators. It was an article in a 1979 newspaper. It said that Mike had won a race in '77. I assume they were referring to that US Nats win. But, I'm not sure. So, did Mike also win the Gators one year ? The other pic I found is of a For Sale ad for Truman Fields' Hard Times Bird. Says it was a D/S record holder, which would run 11.50's. price $3500. Attached Thumbnails Last edited by oldskool; 02-05-2020 at 04:21 PM.

02-05-2020, 10:56 AM	#6
oldskool VIP Member Join Date: Dec 2014 Location: The Land of Bayous, Boudin & Crawfish Posts: 1,668 Likes: 223 Liked 747 Times in 362 Posts	Re: Best Pontiac Powered Stockers OK, I found something on Brent's thread that I wanna ask ya'll about. http://classracer.com/classforum/sho...&postcount=250 I know that the Shubeck lifters, & I assume the tool steel lifters, are quite expensive. BUT, he mentioned the Delphi lifters, that have the hardened foot. I wanna be sure as to exactly which lifters that is referring to. The reason I'm interested is because I bought some Jegs lifters, because they were cheap & because they were said to be made in the USA. They cost under $50. They do have the low groove, denoting the hardened foot. So, I'd like to know if these are the lifters that were referred to in the linked post. OR, are we talking about some special lifter that Delphi makes for racing ? Below are pics of my Delphi/Jegs lifters. I took one apart to show the guts. I also bought some real snap rings, from Fastenal, to replace the flimsy wire retainers the lifters come with. By the way, Brent posted that he bought Rhoads V-max Super Lube lifters for his Stocker engine. Those now cost nearly $200. Rhoads says they use Hylift Johnson lifters cores, then modify 'em to make Rhoads lifters. https://www.summitracing.com/parts/r...w/make/pontiac For a bigger cam, he was gonna have the cam & lifters "coated". So, how much does it cost to have a cam & lifters coated, nowadays. And how much extra life will it give to the cam ? Attached Thumbnails Last edited by oldskool; 02-05-2020 at 11:07 AM.