Best Pontiac Powered Stockers - Page 57

oldskool · 08-14-2020, 08:35 AM

Gonna break in here with a slight change. Tibor Kadar drove a '77 Bird that sometimes did not qualify near the top of the list. But, he did real good with it. I've read that he almost won the national Stock championship, in 2006, finishing a very close 2nd. I've also read that the car ran a 350 Pontiac engine. The car has been mentioned in this thread. But I'll dig around & see what race results I can find.

2/25/06 - AZ Nats #61 - .794 under.

https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCStory.asp?ID=109414

3/5/06 - div 7-1 - Semi-final round finish.

https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...r2006#indextop

4/7/06 - Vegas Summit Nats - #43 - 1.031 under & won L/SA.

https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...r2006#indextop

https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...r2006#indextop

6/26/06 - div 7-4 - Won Stock !

https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...r2006#indextop

10/1/06 - Fontana Sports Nats - Won Stock !

https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...r2006#indextop

3/10/07 - div 7-2 - #25 - 1.058 under.

https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...r2007#indextop

4/13/07 - Vegas Summit Nats - #46 - .999 under.

https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...r2007#indextop

4/21/07 - div 7-3 - #54 - .956 under.

https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...r2007#indextop

11/2/07 - Pomona Finals - #18 - 1.049 under.

https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...r2007#indextop

2/8/08 - Winter Nats - #40 - .952 under.

https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...r2008#indextop

2/23/08 - AZ Nats - #42 - .854 under.

https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...r2008#indextop

3/1/08 - div 7-1 - #38 - .921 under.

https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...r2008#indextop

3/8/08 - div 7-2 - #31 - 1.186 under.

https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...r2008#indextop

4/11/08 - Vegas Summit Nats - #25 - 1.150 under.

https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...r2008#indextop

5/3/08 - div 7-3 - #10 - 1.008 under.

https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...r2008#indextop

2/6/09 - Winter Nats - #51 - .895 under.

https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...r2009#indextop

10/30/09 - Vegas Nats - #33 - 1.164 under.

https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...r2009#indextop

11/7/09 - div 7-7 - #31 - 1.103 under.

https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...r2009#indextop

2/20/10 - AZ Nats - #7 - .802 under.

https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...r2010#indextop

2/27/10 - div 7-1 - #6 - .842 under.

https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...r2010#indextop

4/16/10 - Vegas Summit Nats - #8 - 1.009 under.

https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...r2010#indextop

10/28/10 - Vegas Nats - #24 - .908 under.

https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...r2010#indextop

2/19/11 - div 7-1 - #9 - .774 under.

https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...r2011#indextop

10/14/11 - AZ Nats - #12 - .724 under.

https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...r2011#indextop

bob3240 · 08-14-2020, 01:26 PM

I think Tommy Pettigrew owns the Tibor car now or he did

oldskool · 08-14-2020, 03:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bob^3240

I think Tommy Pettigrew owns the Tibor car now or he did

Yes, from the pics, it appears to be the same car.

https://autoimagery.photoshelter.com..._ACT=usrSearch

After lookin at a few Q-lists, it appears that although the times don't look that impressive, several times, the car was the highest qualified Pontiac on the list.

5/16/15 - div 3-2 - #18 - .847 under.

https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...r2015#indextop

6/6/15 - div 3-3 - #8 - .870 under.

https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...r=100#indextop

8/9/15 - div 3-5 - #8 - .863 under & Won the race, his 1st div win !

oldskool · 08-14-2020, 10:02 PM

Well, I'm not sure which '77-'78 Bird Stocker to look at next.

Think I'll start out in the Great Northwest, with the Bill Edgeworth car. I remember that I've seen it near the top of several Q-lists. But don't think I've ever tried to do a good search.

As mentioned, the car was a nat record holder, at some point. And I know I posted that Ryan Warter drove it at Indy & won class. Also have a pic I'll post, with Ryan Warter driving the car, trying to help sell it. I assume they were good friends, & probably racing buddies, tho I don't know that. Don't know if it ever sold, or not ?

oldskool · 08-14-2020, 10:31 PM

8/5/11 - Northwest Nats - #3 - .883 under.

https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...r2011#indextop

8/20/11 - div 6-5 - #1 - .957 under.

https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...r2011#indextop

7/14/12 - div 6-4 - #2 - .923 under.

https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...r2012#indextop

8/3/12 - Northwest Nats - #2 - .976 under.

https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...r2012#indextop

8/18/12 - #2 - .975 under.

https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...ar2012#indexto

8/2/13 - Northwest Nats - #1 - 1.052 under & made it to the semi-final round.

https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...r2013#indextop

https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...r2013#indextop

8/16/13 - div 6-5 - #3 .896 under.

https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...r2013#indextop

8/17/13 - div 6-6 - #1 - 1.046 under.

https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...r2013#indextop

8/1/14 - Northwest Nats - #4 - .900 under.

https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...r2014#indextop

8/16/14 - div 6-6 - #4 - .967 under- claiming '78 model, in H/SA, which is 400 powered.

https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...r2014#indextop

8/7/15 - Northwest Nats - #5 - .972 under. Unfortunately, Bill passed away not long after this race. So, it may have been his last.

https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCStory.asp?ID=303191

10/29/15 - Vegas Toyota Nats - #26 - .908 under - Ryan Warter driving - May have been car's last race, unless somebody bought it. Anybody have more info about it ?

https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...r2015#indextop

During the period of time covered in these 2 posts, this was an awesome car, against it's index. And I didn't post several other top 10 finishes, just because they weren't a sec under. Bill may have been holding back a little, at some races, to avoid a hit. I suppose it worked, since the last hit I see for the '77 base 400 engine was in 2003. IF that info is correct, Bill must not be responsible for it.

http://www.classracerinfo.com/Engine...4&MAKE=Pontiac

oldskool · 08-15-2020, 08:04 AM

Got another question for you Pontiac Stocker guys who were around in 2003.

According to the info on the Class Racer Info site, the last hp change for the 1977 Pontiac 400 180hp engine, in a Bird, was in 2003. It shows 283hp.

http://www.classracerinfo.com/Engine...4&MAKE=Pontiac

I've been under the assumption that the hp factor went UP, in Nov of 2003.

BUT, I've just cruised thru the DRC Q-lists for 2003. Most all the quick '77-'78 Birds were claiming the '78 year model. This included Holmes, Edwards, Ribeiro, Dilcher, Moyer, & maybe 1 or 2 more I'm forgetting.

The ONLY Bird I saw that ran as a '77, all season long was the Biondo Bird. And it's qualifying times were not near quick enuff to trigger any hp hits.

SO, I'm wondering if maybe the hp actually came DOWN slightly, rather than UP ?

I know of other Pontiac engines that have managed to get a decrease. So, I thought maybe this one did, too, in 2003.

Anybody know EXACTLY when the hits came, for this engine and/or whether it went up or down in Nov of 2003 ?

I see the '78 "big cam" 400 had it's last hp change in 2013. Anybody know the dates when the "hits" occurred, for this engine ?

http://www.classracerinfo.com/Engine...7&MAKE=Pontiac

Is there any way to find the history of hp factor changes, other than finding racers who have kept records of certain hp changes they were interested in ?

I'd be very interested in knowing when the Pontiac hits came & what car was responsible, in each case. For example: Bill Rink has posted here that he knows his '74 GTO was responsible for quite an increase in hp, for the '74 350 Ventura engine. Said that's the reason he switched over to Super Stock, with his '74 GTO.

For the '77-'78 Birds, it seems that there have been 3 main engine choices. The 170hp '77 350 Pontiac, the 180hp '77 400, and the '78 220hp 400.

The last hit for the '77 Bird 350 was in 2016.

http://www.classracerinfo.com/Engine...3&MAKE=Pontiac

oldskool · 08-16-2020, 03:36 AM

Another quick Bird that was mentioned was driven by Dave Edwards. Someone said it was the same Bird, in which Bob Michael had won the M/SA class @ Indy, in 1998.

https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...r1998#indextop

It qualified #12, with a 12.116, which was 1.034 under.

https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...r1998#indextop

It was a white Bird, in full T/A trim.

https://autoimagery.photoshelter.com...5Yl1g--&GI_ID=

https://autoimagery.photoshelter.com...5Yl1g--&GI_ID=

https://autoimagery.photoshelter.com...5Yl1g--&GI_ID=

@ Indy 2000, Dave ran 11.791, which was good enuff for #5 position. Also won the L/SA class.

https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...r2000#indextop

So, I'll look thru some DRC results, around that time period, & see what I can find.

Dave was also #5 & won L/SA, @ the 2000 Route 66 Nats.

https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...r2000#indextop

6/15/00 - Pontiac Nats - #2 - 1.131 under - Won the race !

oldskool · 08-16-2020, 07:45 AM

I had no idea I'd find this many races where this Bird was more than a sec under. And I'll probably miss a few.

3/14/03 - Gators - #6 - 1.116 under - J/SA winner.

https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...r2003#indextop

https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...r2003#indextop

5/17/03 - div 3-2 - #5 - 1.187 under.

https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...r2003#indextop

6/13/03 - Pontiac Nats - #2 - 1.187 under - J/SA winner.

https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...r2003#indextop

https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...r2003#indextop

8/2/03 - div 3-4 - #3 - 1.222 under.

https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...r2003#indextop

8/23/03 - div 3-5 - #3 - 1.290 under.

https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...r2003#indextop

8/29/03 - US Nats - #17 - 1.133 under - J/SA winner.

https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...r2003#indextop

https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...r2003#indextop

10/20/03 - div 3-6 - #2 - 1.368 under.

https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...r2003#indextop

3/19/04 - Gators - #7 - 1.113 under.

https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...r2004#indextop

4/17/04 - div 3-1 - #2 - 1.330 under.

https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...r2004#indextop

4/30/04 - Thunder Valley Nats - Won I/SA class.

https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...r2004#indextop

5/21/04 - Route 66 Nats - #5 - 1.073 under.

https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...r2004#indextop

6/12/04 - Pontiac Nats - #7 - 1.057 under.

https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...r2004#indextop

6/19/04 - div 3-2 - #2 - 1.230 under.

https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...r2004#indextop

9/3/04 - US Nats - #34 - 1.139 under.

https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCStory.asp?ID=2312

9/25/04 - div 3-6 - #2 - 1.273 under.

https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCStory.asp?ID=1260

4/16/05 - div 3-1 - #22 - 1.151 under.

https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...r2005#indextop

5/20/05 - Pontiac Nats - #15 - .962 under.

https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...r2005#indextop

Well, Don Holmes still shows up, but looks like Dave Edwards may have quit racing his '78 T/A. Anyhow, he had a pretty good run with it !

Bob said he sold it. "...The Dave Edwards car was sold to Tony Goodman, then to David Horne if that helps..."

Looked up those 2 guys. Did find some races where they drove it.

7/2/05 - div 3-2 - #7 - 1.049 under.

https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...r2005#indextop

7/16/05 - div 3-3 - #11 - 1.010 under.

https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...r2005#indextop

Made it to the semi-final, but had to settle for 3rd place.

https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...r2005#indextop

6/16/07 - div 3-2 - #2 - 1.227 under. Now running as a '77 model.

https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...r2007#indextop

6/14/08 - div 3-3 - #3 - 1.144 under - David Horn now driving.

https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...r2008#indextop

7/12/08 - div 3-4 - #4 - .925 under.

https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...r2008#indextop

7/26/08 - div 3-5 #9 - 1.031 under.

https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...r2008#indextop

8/23/08 - div 3-6 - #6 - 1.217 under.

https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...r2008#indextop

6/13/09 - div 3-3 - #5 - 1.186 under.

https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...r2009#indextop

7/11/09 - div 3-4 - #3 - 1.124 under.

https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...r2009#indextop

7/26/09 - div 3-5 - #5 - 1.122 under.

https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...r2009#indextop

8/29/09 - div 3-6 - #10 - 1.133 under.

https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...r2009#indextop

7/10/10 - div 3-4 - #2 - .877 under - Made it to semi-final.

https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...r2010#indextop

https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...r2010#indextop

oldskool · 08-16-2020, 03:51 PM

Again, I'm not sure which '77-'78 Bird to look at next. From looking at so many Q-lists, I've seen quite a few of 'em. Some of the names are not familiar to me, at all, especially some who live in Canada.

One that shows up on lots of lists is the car I call the "Biondo Bird". It has been driven by several members of the Biondo clan. Usually not at the top of the Q-list, but quick enuff to be competitive.

6/9/01 - div 1-2 - #67 .474 under.

https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...r2001#indextop

8/31/01 - US Nats - #113 - .813 under.

https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...r2001#indextop

9/8/01 - div 1-6 - Peter Biondo Stock R/U.

https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...r2001#indextop

9/21/01 - AutoZone Nats - #26 - .894 under.

https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...r2001#indextop

5/17/02 - Englishtown Super Nats - #39 - .957 under.

https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...r2002#indextop

8/31/02 - US Nats - #63 - 1.001 under.

https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...r2002#indextop

9/12/02 - Lucas Oil Nats - #45 - .963 under

https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...r2002#indextop

5/15/03 - Englishtown Super Nats - #61 - .939 under.

https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...r2003#indextop

And, since this is a Pontiac thread, I'll mention that this is the race that Al Vanis won, nearly 30 years after winning the US Nats, in a '74 Ventura.

https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...r2003#indextop

6/8/03 - div 3-2 - #43 - .909 under. Don't remember how much info I've posted about the Don Himes GP. Anyhow, this Q-list shows that he ran 1.078 under, with the big GP.

https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...r2003#indextop

7/27/03 - div 1-5 - Won the Race !

https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...r2003#indextop

8/23/03 - div 1-6 - Stock R/U. At most races, the car qualified somewhere around .700 under, sometimes a little quicker.

https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...r2003#indextop

8/29/03 - US Nats - #79 - .991 under - Semi-Final red light.

https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...r2003#indextop

https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...r2003#indextop

5/29/04 - div 1-1 - #54 - .956 under.

https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...r2004#indextop

6/13/04 - Pontiac Nats - Stock R/U.

https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCStory.asp?ID=7744

9/3/04 - US Nats - #93 - 1.073 under.

https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCStory.asp?ID=2312

9/6/04 - US Nats - Stock Round 6 - Lost in Semi-Final.

https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCStory.asp?ID=2115

6/17/05 - Englishtown Super Nats - #36 - .883 under - Stock R/U.

https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...r2005#indextop

https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...r2005#indextop

9/2/05 - US Nats - #82 - 1.011 under.

https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...r2005#indextop

https://autoimagery.photoshelter.com...AA67CVy&GI_ID=

https://autoimagery.photoshelter.com...AA67CVy&GI_ID=

https://autoimagery.photoshelter.com...AA67CVy&GI_ID=

https://autoimagery.photoshelter.com...AA67CVy&GI_ID=

https://autoimagery.photoshelter.com...AA67CVy&GI_ID=

https://autoimagery.photoshelter.com...AA67CVy&GI_ID=

https://autoimagery.photoshelter.com...AA67CVy&GI_ID=

https://autoimagery.photoshelter.com...AA67CVy&GI_ID=

Adam Strang · 08-16-2020, 04:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by oldskool

Don't think I've mentioned this. Adam Strang got a good piston approved & built a 350HO for his '68 Bird. I think he made at least 2 races with it.

Anyhow, he posted that he ran a 10.837 @ 122.80 mph ! As far as I know that's by far the quickest pass ever made by a Pontiac 350 powered Stocker.

I suppose the next quickest might be low 11's, by one of the '74 GTO's, maybe, Brad Koivisto.

Little off topic from the current conversation, I dynoed the 350 in April and made some decent numbers. It's currently apart and having some updates performed,hope to have it back in the car next spring. I did end up going 10.80@123 last year with it.

08-14-2020, 08:35 AM	#561
oldskool VIP Member Join Date: Dec 2014 Location: The Land of Bayous, Boudin & Crawfish Posts: 1,668 Likes: 223 Liked 747 Times in 362 Posts	Re: Best Pontiac Powered Stockers Gonna break in here with a slight change. Tibor Kadar drove a '77 Bird that sometimes did not qualify near the top of the list. But, he did real good with it. I've read that he almost won the national Stock championship, in 2006, finishing a very close 2nd. I've also read that the car ran a 350 Pontiac engine. The car has been mentioned in this thread. But I'll dig around & see what race results I can find. 2/25/06 - AZ Nats #61 - .794 under. https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCStory.asp?ID=109414 3/5/06 - div 7-1 - Semi-final round finish. https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...r2006#indextop 4/7/06 - Vegas Summit Nats - #43 - 1.031 under & won L/SA. https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...r2006#indextop https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...r2006#indextop 6/26/06 - div 7-4 - Won Stock ! https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...r2006#indextop 10/1/06 - Fontana Sports Nats - Won Stock ! https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...r2006#indextop 3/10/07 - div 7-2 - #25 - 1.058 under. https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...r2007#indextop 4/13/07 - Vegas Summit Nats - #46 - .999 under. https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...r2007#indextop 4/21/07 - div 7-3 - #54 - .956 under. https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...r2007#indextop 11/2/07 - Pomona Finals - #18 - 1.049 under. https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...r2007#indextop 2/8/08 - Winter Nats - #40 - .952 under. https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...r2008#indextop 2/23/08 - AZ Nats - #42 - .854 under. https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...r2008#indextop 3/1/08 - div 7-1 - #38 - .921 under. https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...r2008#indextop 3/8/08 - div 7-2 - #31 - 1.186 under. https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...r2008#indextop 4/11/08 - Vegas Summit Nats - #25 - 1.150 under. https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...r2008#indextop 5/3/08 - div 7-3 - #10 - 1.008 under. https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...r2008#indextop 2/6/09 - Winter Nats - #51 - .895 under. https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...r2009#indextop 10/30/09 - Vegas Nats - #33 - 1.164 under. https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...r2009#indextop 11/7/09 - div 7-7 - #31 - 1.103 under. https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...r2009#indextop 2/20/10 - AZ Nats - #7 - .802 under. https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...r2010#indextop 2/27/10 - div 7-1 - #6 - .842 under. https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...r2010#indextop 4/16/10 - Vegas Summit Nats - #8 - 1.009 under. https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...r2010#indextop 10/28/10 - Vegas Nats - #24 - .908 under. https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...r2010#indextop 2/19/11 - div 7-1 - #9 - .774 under. https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...r2011#indextop 10/14/11 - AZ Nats - #12 - .724 under. https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...r2011#indextop Attached Thumbnails Last edited by oldskool; 08-19-2020 at 01:22 AM.

08-14-2020, 01:26 PM	#562
bob3240 Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: lebanon ohio Posts: 251 Likes: 3 Liked 16 Times in 5 Posts	Re: Best Pontiac Powered Stockers I think Tommy Pettigrew owns the Tibor car now or he did

08-14-2020, 10:02 PM	#564
oldskool VIP Member Join Date: Dec 2014 Location: The Land of Bayous, Boudin & Crawfish Posts: 1,668 Likes: 223 Liked 747 Times in 362 Posts	Re: Best Pontiac Powered Stockers Well, I'm not sure which '77-'78 Bird Stocker to look at next. Think I'll start out in the Great Northwest, with the Bill Edgeworth car. I remember that I've seen it near the top of several Q-lists. But don't think I've ever tried to do a good search. As mentioned, the car was a nat record holder, at some point. And I know I posted that Ryan Warter drove it at Indy & won class. Also have a pic I'll post, with Ryan Warter driving the car, trying to help sell it. I assume they were good friends, & probably racing buddies, tho I don't know that. Don't know if it ever sold, or not ? Will take a look & see what else I can find. 7/23/05 - Carquest Nats - #29 - .750 under - semi-final red-light. https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCStory.asp?ID=99552 https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCStory.asp?ID=99732 10/26/06 - Vegas Nats - #36 - 1.062 under. https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCStory.asp?ID=126515 10/6/07 - Pacific Sports Nats - #6 - 1.139 under. https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCStory.asp?ID=147872 4/11/08 - Vegas Summit Nats - #6 - 1.314 under. https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCStory.asp?ID=155390 5/24/08 - div 6-2 - #1 - 1.387 under. https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...r2008#indextop 7/12/08 - div 6-4 - #6 - 1.295 under. https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...r2008#indextop 7/18/08 - Schuck's Nats - #4 - 1.111 under. https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCStory.asp?ID=163716 10/4/08 - Pacific Sports Nats - #23 - .938 under - K/SA class winner https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCStory.asp?ID=170615 https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCStory.asp?ID=170421 5/2/09 - div 6-1 - #2 - 1.722 under. https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...r2009#indextop 6/13/09 - div 6-3 - #1 - 1.388 under. https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...r2009#indextop 7/11/09 - div 6-5 - #4 - 1.199 under. https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...r2009#indextop 7/17/09 - Northwest Nats - #9 - 1.021 under. https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCStory.asp?ID=186823 7/24/09 - FRAM Nats - #11 - 1.059 under. https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCStory.asp?ID=187525 10/30/09 - Vegas Nats - #60 - 1.047 under https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCStory.asp?ID=196122 5/1/10 - div 6-1 - #3 - 1.143 under. https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...r2010#indextop 6/26/10 - div 6-3 - #1 - 1.217 under. https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...r2010#indextop If this DRC info is correct, Bill was running a 350 at this 2010 race. Don't know which races he was running a 350, of all these results. 7/18/10 - Fram Nats - L/SA https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCStory.asp?ID=210172 8/21/10 - div 6-5 - #2 - 1.110 under. https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...r2010#indextop 11/12/10 - Pomona Finals - #3 - 1.079 under. https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCStory.asp?ID=219059 https://autoimagery.photoshelter.com..._ACT=usrSearch Attached Thumbnails Last edited by oldskool; 08-15-2020 at 08:09 AM.

08-14-2020, 10:31 PM	#565
oldskool VIP Member Join Date: Dec 2014 Location: The Land of Bayous, Boudin & Crawfish Posts: 1,668 Likes: 223 Liked 747 Times in 362 Posts	Re: Best Pontiac Powered Stockers 8/5/11 - Northwest Nats - #3 - .883 under. https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...r2011#indextop 8/20/11 - div 6-5 - #1 - .957 under. https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...r2011#indextop 7/14/12 - div 6-4 - #2 - .923 under. https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...r2012#indextop 8/3/12 - Northwest Nats - #2 - .976 under. https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...r2012#indextop 8/18/12 - #2 - .975 under. https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...ar2012#indexto 8/2/13 - Northwest Nats - #1 - 1.052 under & made it to the semi-final round. https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...r2013#indextop https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...r2013#indextop 8/16/13 - div 6-5 - #3 .896 under. https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...r2013#indextop 8/17/13 - div 6-6 - #1 - 1.046 under. https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...r2013#indextop 8/1/14 - Northwest Nats - #4 - .900 under. https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...r2014#indextop 8/16/14 - div 6-6 - #4 - .967 under- claiming '78 model, in H/SA, which is 400 powered. https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...r2014#indextop 8/7/15 - Northwest Nats - #5 - .972 under. Unfortunately, Bill passed away not long after this race. So, it may have been his last. https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCStory.asp?ID=303191 10/29/15 - Vegas Toyota Nats - #26 - .908 under - Ryan Warter driving - May have been car's last race, unless somebody bought it. Anybody have more info about it ? https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...r2015#indextop During the period of time covered in these 2 posts, this was an awesome car, against it's index. And I didn't post several other top 10 finishes, just because they weren't a sec under. Bill may have been holding back a little, at some races, to avoid a hit. I suppose it worked, since the last hit I see for the '77 base 400 engine was in 2003. IF that info is correct, Bill must not be responsible for it. http://www.classracerinfo.com/Engine...4&MAKE=Pontiac Attached Thumbnails Last edited by oldskool; 08-15-2020 at 05:18 AM.

08-15-2020, 08:04 AM	#566
oldskool VIP Member Join Date: Dec 2014 Location: The Land of Bayous, Boudin & Crawfish Posts: 1,668 Likes: 223 Liked 747 Times in 362 Posts	Re: Best Pontiac Powered Stockers Got another question for you Pontiac Stocker guys who were around in 2003. According to the info on the Class Racer Info site, the last hp change for the 1977 Pontiac 400 180hp engine, in a Bird, was in 2003. It shows 283hp. http://www.classracerinfo.com/Engine...4&MAKE=Pontiac I've been under the assumption that the hp factor went UP, in Nov of 2003. BUT, I've just cruised thru the DRC Q-lists for 2003. Most all the quick '77-'78 Birds were claiming the '78 year model. This included Holmes, Edwards, Ribeiro, Dilcher, Moyer, & maybe 1 or 2 more I'm forgetting. The ONLY Bird I saw that ran as a '77, all season long was the Biondo Bird. And it's qualifying times were not near quick enuff to trigger any hp hits. SO, I'm wondering if maybe the hp actually came DOWN slightly, rather than UP ? I know of other Pontiac engines that have managed to get a decrease. So, I thought maybe this one did, too, in 2003. Anybody know EXACTLY when the hits came, for this engine and/or whether it went up or down in Nov of 2003 ? I see the '78 "big cam" 400 had it's last hp change in 2013. Anybody know the dates when the "hits" occurred, for this engine ? http://www.classracerinfo.com/Engine...7&MAKE=Pontiac Is there any way to find the history of hp factor changes, other than finding racers who have kept records of certain hp changes they were interested in ? I'd be very interested in knowing when the Pontiac hits came & what car was responsible, in each case. For example: Bill Rink has posted here that he knows his '74 GTO was responsible for quite an increase in hp, for the '74 350 Ventura engine. Said that's the reason he switched over to Super Stock, with his '74 GTO. For the '77-'78 Birds, it seems that there have been 3 main engine choices. The 170hp '77 350 Pontiac, the 180hp '77 400, and the '78 220hp 400. The last hit for the '77 Bird 350 was in 2016. http://www.classracerinfo.com/Engine...3&MAKE=Pontiac

08-16-2020, 03:36 AM	#567
oldskool VIP Member Join Date: Dec 2014 Location: The Land of Bayous, Boudin & Crawfish Posts: 1,668 Likes: 223 Liked 747 Times in 362 Posts	Re: Best Pontiac Powered Stockers Another quick Bird that was mentioned was driven by Dave Edwards. Someone said it was the same Bird, in which Bob Michael had won the M/SA class @ Indy, in 1998. https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...r1998#indextop It qualified #12, with a 12.116, which was 1.034 under. https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...r1998#indextop It was a white Bird, in full T/A trim. https://autoimagery.photoshelter.com...5Yl1g--&GI_ID= https://autoimagery.photoshelter.com...5Yl1g--&GI_ID= https://autoimagery.photoshelter.com...5Yl1g--&GI_ID= @ Indy 2000, Dave ran 11.791, which was good enuff for #5 position. Also won the L/SA class. https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...r2000#indextop So, I'll look thru some DRC results, around that time period, & see what I can find. Dave was also #5 & won L/SA, @ the 2000 Route 66 Nats. https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...r2000#indextop 6/15/00 - Pontiac Nats - #2 - 1.131 under - Won the race ! https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...r2000#indextop https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...r2000#indextop 10/6/00 - Auto Zone Nats - #1 - 1.303 under & L/SA winner. https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...r2000#indextop 5/19/01 - div 3-2 - #2 - 1.214 under. https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...r2001#indextop 6/15/01 - Pontiac Nats - #2 - 1.165 under. https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...r2001#indextop 7/7/01 - div 3-3 - #8 - 1.121 under. https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...r2001#indextop 8/4/01 - div 3-4 - #3 - 1.233 under. https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...r2001#indextop 10/13/01 - div 3-6 - #8 - 1.102 under. https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...r2001#indextop 3/15/02 - Gators - #26 - 1.097 under. https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...r2002#indextop 5/18/02 - div 3-2 - #11 - 1.039 under. https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...r2002#indextop 5/31/02 - Dodge Nats - #8 - 1.091 under - K/SA winner. https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...r2002#indextop https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...r2002#indextop 6/14/02 - Pontiac Nats - #1 - 1.095 under. https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...r2002#indextop 6/28/02 - Sears Nats - #2 - 1.109 under. https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...r2002#indextop 8/3/02 - div 3-4 - #5 - 1.139 under. https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...r2002#indextop 8/31/02 - US Nats - #12 - 1.142 under. https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...r2002#indextop 9/21/02 - div 3-6 - # 3 - 1.282 under. https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...r2002#indextop Last edited by oldskool; 08-18-2020 at 01:44 AM.

08-16-2020, 07:45 AM	#568
oldskool VIP Member Join Date: Dec 2014 Location: The Land of Bayous, Boudin & Crawfish Posts: 1,668 Likes: 223 Liked 747 Times in 362 Posts	Re: Best Pontiac Powered Stockers I had no idea I'd find this many races where this Bird was more than a sec under. And I'll probably miss a few. 3/14/03 - Gators - #6 - 1.116 under - J/SA winner. https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...r2003#indextop https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...r2003#indextop 5/17/03 - div 3-2 - #5 - 1.187 under. https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...r2003#indextop 6/13/03 - Pontiac Nats - #2 - 1.187 under - J/SA winner. https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...r2003#indextop https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...r2003#indextop 8/2/03 - div 3-4 - #3 - 1.222 under. https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...r2003#indextop 8/23/03 - div 3-5 - #3 - 1.290 under. https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...r2003#indextop 8/29/03 - US Nats - #17 - 1.133 under - J/SA winner. https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...r2003#indextop https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...r2003#indextop 10/20/03 - div 3-6 - #2 - 1.368 under. https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...r2003#indextop 3/19/04 - Gators - #7 - 1.113 under. https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...r2004#indextop 4/17/04 - div 3-1 - #2 - 1.330 under. https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...r2004#indextop 4/30/04 - Thunder Valley Nats - Won I/SA class. https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...r2004#indextop 5/21/04 - Route 66 Nats - #5 - 1.073 under. https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...r2004#indextop 6/12/04 - Pontiac Nats - #7 - 1.057 under. https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...r2004#indextop 6/19/04 - div 3-2 - #2 - 1.230 under. https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...r2004#indextop 9/3/04 - US Nats - #34 - 1.139 under. https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCStory.asp?ID=2312 9/25/04 - div 3-6 - #2 - 1.273 under. https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCStory.asp?ID=1260 4/16/05 - div 3-1 - #22 - 1.151 under. https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...r2005#indextop 5/20/05 - Pontiac Nats - #15 - .962 under. https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...r2005#indextop Well, Don Holmes still shows up, but looks like Dave Edwards may have quit racing his '78 T/A. Anyhow, he had a pretty good run with it ! Bob said he sold it. "...The Dave Edwards car was sold to Tony Goodman, then to David Horne if that helps..." Looked up those 2 guys. Did find some races where they drove it. 7/2/05 - div 3-2 - #7 - 1.049 under. https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...r2005#indextop 7/16/05 - div 3-3 - #11 - 1.010 under. https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...r2005#indextop Made it to the semi-final, but had to settle for 3rd place. https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...r2005#indextop 6/16/07 - div 3-2 - #2 - 1.227 under. Now running as a '77 model. https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...r2007#indextop 6/14/08 - div 3-3 - #3 - 1.144 under - David Horn now driving. https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...r2008#indextop 7/12/08 - div 3-4 - #4 - .925 under. https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...r2008#indextop 7/26/08 - div 3-5 #9 - 1.031 under. https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...r2008#indextop 8/23/08 - div 3-6 - #6 - 1.217 under. https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...r2008#indextop 6/13/09 - div 3-3 - #5 - 1.186 under. https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...r2009#indextop 7/11/09 - div 3-4 - #3 - 1.124 under. https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...r2009#indextop 7/26/09 - div 3-5 - #5 - 1.122 under. https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...r2009#indextop 8/29/09 - div 3-6 - #10 - 1.133 under. https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...r2009#indextop 7/10/10 - div 3-4 - #2 - .877 under - Made it to semi-final. https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...r2010#indextop https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...r2010#indextop Last edited by oldskool; 08-17-2020 at 09:04 PM.

08-16-2020, 03:51 PM	#569
oldskool VIP Member Join Date: Dec 2014 Location: The Land of Bayous, Boudin & Crawfish Posts: 1,668 Likes: 223 Liked 747 Times in 362 Posts	Re: Best Pontiac Powered Stockers Again, I'm not sure which '77-'78 Bird to look at next. From looking at so many Q-lists, I've seen quite a few of 'em. Some of the names are not familiar to me, at all, especially some who live in Canada. One that shows up on lots of lists is the car I call the "Biondo Bird". It has been driven by several members of the Biondo clan. Usually not at the top of the Q-list, but quick enuff to be competitive. 6/9/01 - div 1-2 - #67 .474 under. https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...r2001#indextop 8/31/01 - US Nats - #113 - .813 under. https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...r2001#indextop 9/8/01 - div 1-6 - Peter Biondo Stock R/U. https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...r2001#indextop 9/21/01 - AutoZone Nats - #26 - .894 under. https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...r2001#indextop 5/17/02 - Englishtown Super Nats - #39 - .957 under. https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...r2002#indextop 8/31/02 - US Nats - #63 - 1.001 under. https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...r2002#indextop 9/12/02 - Lucas Oil Nats - #45 - .963 under https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...r2002#indextop 5/15/03 - Englishtown Super Nats - #61 - .939 under. https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...r2003#indextop And, since this is a Pontiac thread, I'll mention that this is the race that Al Vanis won, nearly 30 years after winning the US Nats, in a '74 Ventura. https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...r2003#indextop 6/8/03 - div 3-2 - #43 - .909 under. Don't remember how much info I've posted about the Don Himes GP. Anyhow, this Q-list shows that he ran 1.078 under, with the big GP. https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...r2003#indextop 7/27/03 - div 1-5 - Won the Race ! https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...r2003#indextop 8/23/03 - div 1-6 - Stock R/U. At most races, the car qualified somewhere around .700 under, sometimes a little quicker. https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...r2003#indextop 8/29/03 - US Nats - #79 - .991 under - Semi-Final red light. https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...r2003#indextop https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...r2003#indextop 5/29/04 - div 1-1 - #54 - .956 under. https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...r2004#indextop 6/13/04 - Pontiac Nats - Stock R/U. https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCStory.asp?ID=7744 9/3/04 - US Nats - #93 - 1.073 under. https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCStory.asp?ID=2312 9/6/04 - US Nats - Stock Round 6 - Lost in Semi-Final. https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCStory.asp?ID=2115 6/17/05 - Englishtown Super Nats - #36 - .883 under - Stock R/U. https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...r2005#indextop https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...r2005#indextop 9/2/05 - US Nats - #82 - 1.011 under. https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...r2005#indextop https://autoimagery.photoshelter.com...AA67CVy&GI_ID= https://autoimagery.photoshelter.com...AA67CVy&GI_ID= https://autoimagery.photoshelter.com...AA67CVy&GI_ID= https://autoimagery.photoshelter.com...AA67CVy&GI_ID= https://autoimagery.photoshelter.com...AA67CVy&GI_ID= https://autoimagery.photoshelter.com...AA67CVy&GI_ID= https://autoimagery.photoshelter.com...AA67CVy&GI_ID= https://autoimagery.photoshelter.com...AA67CVy&GI_ID= Attached Thumbnails Last edited by oldskool; 08-19-2020 at 07:11 PM.