Automatic Horsepower Factoring System

[Dick Butler]

If the sandbagging and fear of running fast is what people are complaining about how will lowering the index help?Would the trigger be lowered too? Does that do anything? except make a number less under. Does it affect the HP problem some cars show?

[SS Engine Guy]

This isn't a numbers game in a casino. Lower what ever you want. The fast will still be as far under and the bogus hp factors will still be bogus.

[Bruce Noland]

Lowering the indexes by .30 is the fair and honest solution for everyone. National events are all run affairs any way.

[Dick Butler]

Bruce, You state lowering the index .3 is the "solution". What is the problem? If it the fear of being factored then yes. If it is to make the Bogus Hp combinations better controlled, NO no effect. Moving the trigger will not effect it either...
The current "problem" appears to be that it does not sort out Fast cars from hard work by extensive numbers of cars and hard working numbers of racers from one off Bogus cars discovered by Book work. Yes theses cars have work too but they start out soft for multiple reasons mainly being just allowed as they are in the book.This needs to be addressed by the Committee.
Require a person to file a letter of intent to run a combo before they dig out the 50 year old 2 x4 manifolds and make a mockery of the factoring system. Common sense initial factoring should be required. The same holds for new stuff with exotic technology allowed as a way to get new cars into the eliminator by unreasonable low expectations on numbers for HP.

[Ron Ortiz]

I am one of those racers that used to be close to the index, and with some work have managed to get faster. Recently I tried some newer components and have managed to get back to square one, only running about 3 tenths under. I know of other racers that sometimes are near the indexes. I DO NOT LIKE THE IDEA OF LOWERING THE INDEXES. It does nothing except help the people that run very fast from getting horsepower. The lowering of indexes was done to bring more people into the category, not to punish people from going too fast. There are so many bogus combos, parts, etc. that need to be addressed first. The AHFS cannot work as long as these things exist. Fast guys are jamming on the brakes to protect their HP, and NHRA keeps telling you to stop it because it is a safety thing. But do they enforce it, NO. I can't tell you how much smoke I have seen comming off the front tires of people trying to make it close with my 14 second slug at the finish line, What happens, they are told "if you do that again we are going to DQ you" Do they ever get DQ'd , NO, it's a bunch of bull. I watch cars from the stands at the finish line and see so much sand bagging it's disgusting. This is a performance based category, and it has turned into a circus. No one wants to go too fast, but they want to be the fastest. A bunch of bull.

NHRA needs to start tracking every run and all incremintal times from the 60' to the finish line to detemine what the vehicles really are capable of. They need to implement a system that accounts for weather and altitude tracks, and I know it can be done with todays technology. They need to start enforing their own interpretation of the rules they made. When some guy out in the middle of nowhere hits your combo with a fast run, you get penalized even though there are differences in the two combos. Is that fair, no a bunch of bull. Someone goes out and goes 1.50 under and is immediatelly hit with HP. Are they torn down first to make sure it was legit? If they are legit then they deserve HP because it was factored wrong in the first place. Superceded parts are another joke, it's given to some but not others, and you wonder why the AHFS is not working. I read where people have a varied view of the way things should be done, lower the indexes, lower the trigger, leave it alone, allow certain things, .50 under to win class, more teardowns, no paper cars, give us more parts, STOP IT.
There is nothing wrong with the current indexes. Eliminate the trigger system, let the fast cars go fast, stop the sand bagging, enforce the rules correctly, this is Stock Eliminator, a PERFORMANCE BASED category. If you want more liberal rules or parts, go to Super Stock.

Ron Ortiz
U/SA .3 under and still competitive.

[Dick Butler]

Ron Ortiz, You are correct on all the issues you have addressed. You did not address how to adjust the factoring on those weakly factored cars which would Dominate if no for of AHFS at all were present.
The hope is the AHFS could be a "hands off" way to adjust HP but forgets the human component of the driver. The driver can "choose " to sandbag, put in wt, use the brakes if everything is left alone. With NO system to adjust of any kind class racing would become very biased to Bogus Hp cars.... Not just the hard working guys or the popular well worked combinations. Some people live to be #1 qualifier .Some might say using the "ratings game" for an underfactored car motor is a weaknes of the racing.

[bsa633]

Originally Posted by Dick Butler

If the sandbagging and fear of running fast is what people are complaining about how will lowering the index help?Would the trigger be lowered too? Does that do anything? except make a number less under. Does it affect the HP problem some cars show?

Ofcourse the trigger has to remain for it to have any effect....but i guess a higher trigger would have the same effect...but com'on...should we maybe ask for adding .5 to the index? then you could probably run the index with with your daily driver or a rental...(maybe we just could fly in to those big money "Bracket Races)use the same car back and forward to the motel ..and also ..you would not need to have any gear with you...with todays costs..sounds good? Seriously if someone have problems running -.50 today..you A: aren't doing anything right with your combo(aka.working as hard as you should) B: have a combo thats wrongly factored. We should not use the Index to settle those arguments!
I think it's looks really stupid from the outside these days when everone is trying to hit -1.14 in qualifying..and many have to lift heavily,have a couple of hundred pounds extra with them or other strange tune ups!

p.s Its seems like many people think you should be guaranteed to run under the index nowdays...why is that?

[Evan Smith]

The argument is to make the indexes harder, not softer BSA.

Evan

[Jack McCarthy]

Automatic Help for Slugs CANNOT and WILL NOT EVER WORK... heard that from me for 4 years now eh ??

the system is flawed in that it cannot evaluate the POTENTIAL of any combination, it SIMPLY deals with data from previous runs which have TWO qualities that it CANNOT factor in... 1. the weather conditions and 2. the fact we can manipulate the data ourselves... END OF STORY.

we didnt like it when FARMER would give out horsepower at his sole descretion, and we didnt like the committees... but at least there was an intelligent (supposedly) being involved > not a bunch of skewed facts and a ten page rule that god cant understand (which can and does change without rhyme or reason).

i do not have the solution... but i KNOW the AHFS cant and wont ever work, we are just beating a dead horse !!!

jack mccarthy

and if they cant see that the indexes are so soft CHARMIN is considering them for a advertising campaign i dont know what to say... we have been GIVEN over 1/2 second of enhancements since they last RAISED the indexes... get real guys... lower them .50, trigger at 1.00 and lets race !!!!!

[Rich Biebel]

It's hard for me to say this, but I agree with Ed on that one I poured quite a few heads in my machine shop days. Mostly S.B. Chevy's and 12 cc's ain't happenin, and not "by accident" at least as far as the Chevy's are concerned.....they ain't even close to the NHRA numbers.....I poured my LT-1 before I put it together 2 years ago...guess what.....same deal! Well under the spec......