What would it take for you to attend a Sportsman Race

[Timothy Fletcher]

After doing this with Ken for 3 years here is what we've learned it takes...

•It has to be at a facility that is reasonably close to everyone in the country.
-but the facility has to be flat and level for parking.
-and the facility has to be "fast".
-but the facility has to be easy to get to from the highway.

•It has to be a weekend that you can loop it with another race.
-but it can't be too close to other races because then it’s too many in a row
-and it can’t be too early in the season because no one is ready
-but then it can’t be too late because then everyone has encountered problems
-but then it can’t be in the middle because there’s too many races
-and it can’t be this weekend or that weekend because it’s my nephews bar mitzvah

•It has to be a weekend with a good forecast.
-but then it can’t be too hot because then it’s too hot
-and then it can’t have a 1% chance of rain because then people don’t want to sit in the rain
-but then it can’t have a head wind because then the cars go slow
-and then it can’t be too sunny because then it’s too hot

•It has to be a reasonable entry fee for reasonable pay.
-but then it can’t cost too much because a lot of racers are on a budget
-and it can’t cost too little because then it’s not worth the wear and tear
(basically, it needs to be $15 to enter and $15,000 to win)

•It has to be on the weekend because people can’t take off work.
-but then it can’t start Friday because people have work
-and then it can’t start early Saturday because people don’t want to drive through the night Friday after work to get there
-but then it can’t end late Sunday because people have work Monday

With all due respect and no offense, THERE IS NOTHING ANYONE CAN DO TO PLEASE THE STK/SS COMMUNITY. You all deserve NHRA and the **** they put you through.
$350 or $200 to enter
$100 for your wife
3–4-day long events
1 race
BUT A WALLY!

See "ya'll" at Gainesville!

[Alan Roehrich]

Originally Posted by timothy fletcher

after doing this with ken for 3 years here is what we've learned it takes...

•it has to be at a facility that is reasonably close to everyone in the country.
-but the facility has to be flat and level for parking.
-and the facility has to be "fast".
-but the facility has to be easy to get to from the highway.

•it has to be a weekend that you can loop it with another race.
-but it can't be too close to other races because then it’s too many in a row
-and it can’t be too early in the season because no one is ready
-but then it can’t be too late because then everyone has encountered problems
-but then it can’t be in the middle because there’s too many races
-and it can’t be this weekend or that weekend because it’s my nephews bar mitzvah

•it has to be a weekend with a good forecast.
-but then it can’t be too hot because then it’s too hot
-and then it can’t have a 1% chance of rain because then people don’t want to sit in the rain
-but then it can’t have a head wind because then the cars go slow
-and then it can’t be too sunny because then it’s too hot

•it has to be a reasonable entry fee for reasonable pay.
-but then it can’t cost too much because a lot of racers are on a budget
-and it can’t cost too little because then it’s not worth the wear and tear
(basically, it needs to be $15 to enter and $15,000 to win)

•it has to be on the weekend because people can’t take off work.
-but then it can’t start friday because people have work
-and then it can’t start early saturday because people don’t want to drive through the night friday after work to get there
-but then it can’t end late sunday because people have work monday

with all due respect and no offense, there is nothing anyone can do to please the stk/ss community. You all deserve nhra and the **** they put you through.
$350 or $200 to enter
$100 for your wife
3–4-day long events
1 race
but a wally!

See "ya'll" at gainesville!

nailed it!!!!!!!

[GTS340]

Even though this is a back east thread. We have lost so many tracks out west here. Which in turn we have lost racers and race cars. Larry has the right idea and location. The word fun has to be more than the one person winning the race. I was at Bowling Green over 30yrs ago and it left a great memory. Steve McGrath was driving my Volare. Top Stock and class eliminations are great spectating racing and of course we build class cars to be the best in class. We can E.T. race at home. Class racing and fun. Sign me up.

Paul Haszlauer

[Ron Ortiz]

Thank you to all on this post. Fantastic input. The last few posts have totally summed it up. Thank you.

And now, back to our regular scheduled programming.

Ron Ortiz
U/SA can't wait to see you all.

[Pistol Pete]

Barry
I think an association race like Dave Ley’s race or the ASRA races in D1 are great.

Maybe at either one or both they could have one race that you pay double and that’ll
make for a bigger payout.

One of Dave’s races that used to be at Englishtown was the Bigger payout race.
Now that big money race is at Atco.

The great thing about Ken’s races & why I liked coming up from Florida is:
He Only Ran S/SS cars and it was 2 separate categories, no offense to any other categories.

Another thought is: Since the Dutch Classic is a Big Hit with car counts maybe the weekend
before you can have the S/SS race ?? Providing it doesn’t interfere with MG’s schedule.

Just my 2 cents.

[tstickff]

If you scroll a little lower on the main page here, there is a group of stock/SS associations, I personally have run All Star racing association, and Carolina Class racer Association, the payouts are great, they are fun to attend, low stress, some have heads ups and some don’t. But what I see is that there seems to be something like these associations in each division. Like Tim and Ken have mentioned, you aren’t going to make everyone happy, but maybe we should support these associations more, I can say that each one I have attended get anywhere from 30-50 cars, I can also count a large number of cars or guys who do not attend these races I go to even though they live local, why is that? Who knows but it’s time to support these groups as much as possible before they disappear. Then what would we bitch about?

Tim Stickles

[Alan Roehrich]

Originally Posted by GTS340

Even though this is a back east thread. We have lost so many tracks out west here. Which in turn we have lost racers and race cars. Larry has the right idea and location. The word fun has to be more than the one person winning the race. I was at Bowling Green over 30yrs ago and it left a great memory. Steve McGrath was driving my Volare. Top Stock and class eliminations are great spectating racing and of course we build class cars to be the best in class. We can E.T. race at home. Class racing and fun. Sign me up.

Paul Haszlauer

Nice post, Paul. It's great to see some love for our home track, especially from people so far away.


I have friends out there, it's a shame that with all that land, you guys have lost a ton of tracks, and have to drive eight hours to race, on a good weekend.





I'm a bit biased, because it's my home track. And this only applies really east of the Mississippi.


But Bowling Green absolutely IS the ideal facility for a Stock and Super Stock race. They literally host a ton of the combo races every year, plus the SportsNational Open, and the Indy tune up LODRS, they love the cars and classes, and they know them. The central location is great, and the track is easy to access. The parking is great, even for 1,000 cars. The track is reasonably fast in decent weather. There are plenty of affordable hotels, motels, and restaurants. There's even a recreation park for kids.



Ideally, you could have a $100 test and tune on Thursday, and even throw in a $100 to enter combo that night. Open Friday for tech, a couple of rounds of qualifying, and either run class, or another $100 to enter combo.


I really would rather see class run starting at 10:00 Saturday morning, just to allow people who want/need to make a two day race of it the opportunity to run for class. This despite my belief that people hard core enough to run for class are going to come in Wednesday night to be ready for the $100 test and tune (yeah, you Larry Hill ). In conjunction with class, there's time for at least 2 qualifying shots for everyone, so if you choose to roll in on Friday night, you still have a qualifying shot in each lane for the big race. And you even have the opportunity to run at least one bonus race, even if you choose to make it a two day race.



Then start eliminations on Saturday evening, 1-2 rounds. Have another $100 to enter bonus combo on Saturday night, especially good for anyone who didn't make it past rounds 1 or 2.You could also run Top Stock style racing Saturday night in conjunction with the $100 to enter combo, to eliminate down time. Or, run a big money $500 to enter combo. And finish the main race eliminations on Sunday.


Seriously, at Bowling Green, you could pack in a ton of racing for a big field of cars, without it being a hassle.


Think about it. A main race, say $250 to enter, that includes class eliminations. Plus 2 to 4 $100 to enter combo races. A $100 test and tune session, and maybe Top Stock style racing ($100 entry fee, 2-3 classes each in Stock and Super Stock). One location, one weekend. With a chance to decide how much to race and how much to spend.





For those east of the Mississippi, and even 300 miles west of it, you can't really beat the location or the facility, and it's capable of hosting a huge field of cars, and a bunch of racing. It would be cool to offer a lot of different races, so everyone has multiple shots at going some rounds and winning some money.




Nah. Never mind. Fletcher is right. It's not perfect enough. And there's no wally.

[Dan Fletcher]

Originally Posted by GTS340

Even though this is a back east thread. We have lost so many tracks out west here. Which in turn we have lost racers and race cars. Larry has the right idea and location. The word fun has to be more than the one person winning the race. I was at Bowling Green over 30yrs ago and it left a great memory. Steve McGrath was driving my Volare. Top Stock and class eliminations are great spectating racing and of course we build class cars to be the best in class. We can E.T. race at home. Class racing and fun. Sign me up.

Paul Haszlauer

Hey Paul,

I know the tow was a bit too long for you, lol, but the Class Racer Nationals was the only thing at the track on those weekends, as it was a stand alone event. It had two separate races each day for each class, best losing package prizes, second chance races, good early round money, Top Stock one year (a whopping 6 cars), a free qualifying race last year that paid great, free racer wife entry, big checks to the winner and runner up, longest tow award, etc, etc. This event was not even remotely all about just the winner.

I watched first hand the time and effort that went into this deal. They tried everything to make this a fun race for all, and everyone that was there, including your old driver, said it was a great event. But all they got was less cars attending as the three years progressed. This was never about making money, Kenny and Timothy just wanted to put on a race that was the sort of deal EVERYONE would enjoy. I heard Keno say from the jump he didn't care if he lost a few bucks, he just wanted to do it.

As my Dad would say, some people would bitch if they were hung with a new rope...

[Mike Pearson]

I think Tyler’s race has the best chance for success. He just needs some good weather and a good weekend. That track is a much better location to attract racers from a wide area. The Numidia location is good for the D1 racers but has limited interest from other division racers. For me it would be at least a 24 hour tow. My limit is about 14 hours. Atlanta would have been a great location but we all know what happened there.
The last few years have been very difficult for all businesses. The Covid crap and then the huge inflation with fuel prices doubled. All this has an effect on peoples ability to travel long distances. I think this has a negative effect on last years Class Racer Nationals.
There is a couple of independent associations that are healthy. CCRA and the East Coast association are both well attended.
I don’t know what the break even number for Ken’s race was last year. Or what the actual count ended up being. Most divisional races struggle to get above 70 cars in each class. To get 100 car fields in each class you have to be able to pull from several different divisions.
The only way to really make any of these private races work is to have sponsors to assist with the cost of the track rental and improve the pay out structure. That way the promoter does not have as much exposure

[B Parker]

Dan none of us can disagree with what you and Tim have said. Including myself, I think there are a lot of races that are now looking back having regrets for not making it to this race. Everything you said about the race is true. It was great!! Even though it would have been really tough last year for me to make it. I felt I would make it next year not giving it a thought that there would not be a next year without out the support it needed to have Last year. It's our own fault. Not anything that Tim, Ken or the track did.

WE THE RACER LET THE RACE DOWN!!

I hope there is a way to salvage something to look at and maybe give it another try. If not this year next year. I don't know about the rest of you but this has really opened my eyes.
For those that can't see it, Stock and Super Stock is on a course to self destruct at the National level. We need races like this one. Thanks Barry Parker