What would it take for you to attend a Sportsman Race

[Alan Roehrich]

Originally Posted by tommy d

Don't forget that the bracket races Also offer double entry's and buy backs along with some other perks that won't work for class racers. These help the promoter make it financially.

That's why one of my posts mentioned combo races, and a test and tune. Bowling Green usually hosts a test and tune in conjunction with the LODRS and the Open. It would only make sense to host a test and tune at a class event.


And the evening combo races are the equivalent of having a bracket program and buy backs. The $5000 to win Clay Jones combo draws a pretty decent field, as Larry stated. Given the right opportunity, there's a segment of the class racing community that will run "extra" and bonus races.



In the post where I expanded on a possible format, what I suggested gave the racer, for one tow, the opportunity to run 3-5 races in a weekend, and control what they spent. Spend $250 and run one race over 2 to 2-1/2 days, or spend up to $650 or so and run 3-5 races, with a shot at $2500, up to maybe $7500, or more. And it lets the promoter and track have a chance to make money on multiple races, and keep a show going for a while for spectators.

[Stephen & Horace Johnson]

Originally Posted by Alan Roehrich

Barry,
I'm sure that you know, Mike is a Division 2 racer. A long time Division 2 racer. The tough thing about Division 2 is that maybe half of the racers are in southern Georgia, southern Alabama, or Florida, and we know how far south Florida goes. That's the problem with Division 2.


But yes, racers let these races down. Regardless of location.


Here's the deal, the more I think about it, the more that I believe it is true.


A race that cannot yield a wally is apparently never going to compete with one that can, for a large portion of the Stock and Super Stock racers. They're going to drive further for a shot at a wally, on the same weekend, or on a different weekend. For the same or less money.



We ran the SportsNational Open one year, against, if I remember correctly, a rescheduled LODRS in Atlanta. While the SportsNational Open outdrew the Atlanta race, which did poorly, there were a ton of racers, Division 3 racers, who literally drove right past the SportsNational Open at Bowling Green to get to Atlanta. The payout at Bowling Green was the same. It was an NHRA event. As a bonus, NitroPlate paid at least $5000 to win the Saturday night Clay Jones combo.


Independent races apparently cannot compete with the wally, for a lot of Stock and Super Stock racers. Even with more money. Even with a better atmosphere. With better treatment. With more chances to win more money. Apparently, if you beat the exact same 6-8 guys to win a race, the race with the wally means something, the other race doesn't. Regardless of pay. I suppose it is a fact that we all have to learn to live with. There is a large percentage of our group that will literally skip a closer, well funded independent race, on a pretty weekend, to use that money and/or time off, to drive further, to an NHRA race where they're treated as riff raff, and paid less. Sad but true.




The best thing that we can do is understand that fact, and figure out if there is a way that anyone can successfully put on an independent race, or races, and make it financially viable. It's a tough economy, which makes sponsors recalcitrant, or hesitant at best. Without sponsors, who will demand serious car counts, it's impossible. Maybe someone will be willing to answer this question: At $250 to enter, how many racers does it take to make a 2-3 day independent race a better than break even deal?

Yep that year, my dad , my son and I drove 5 hours instead of 2.5hours. We had a great time as always at BG

[Ed Carpenter]

Back in 2013 I think? My son and I attended the Northern Class Nationals in Columbus put on by Michael Beard. We got the long tow award. 21 hrs or so to get there. I put together the SS/K shootout. While we didn’t have a successful weekend with the (we broke everything possible on it) we had a great time. It was a fantastic event. Michael and team had an amazing number of sponsors. There was extra bonus races etc besides the S/SS races. I loved it because I got to see and meet people you only read about or see on Nhra tv etc racing. I really really enjoyed and was very frustrated and felt so bad for Michael and his team especially when the second one he put on was poorly attended. I too was guilty of not attending that second one and I’m sorry for that. For those with S/SS associations in your division you are fortunate. We don’t have one here in D4. I don’t have the resources, time, or the expertise to start one. I don’t even run SS anymore but my heart is still there. Every race I attend I always go to the starting line for SS. It’s just a special class. I don’t have the answers. I do know when I put on the SS/K shootout I got 27 sponsors on board. It was a lot of work with a lot of no’s. But I was persistent and got all I could. It takes a lot of time and effort. We should all be a little more appreciative of the work these men and women put into these non-NHRA events.,Good luck and safe racing to everyone this year. After 4 years away, I will be racing this year. Look forward to seeing everyone at the track.

[Alan Roehrich]

Originally Posted by Stephen & Horace Johnson

I’ve always wondered why no class runoffs at this race?

Stephen, that race did at one time have class eliminations, Kevin has 2-3 wins, I have a runner up to Donnie Beeler. They were replaced by the Clay Jones combo a few years back. I think the Bowling Green staff felt that they couldn't get class eliminations AND the combo done in the same day. There have been several instances where the delays have pushed racing later into the night than they would like. You can race after 10PM at Bowling Green, but they don't like to, and I don't blame them. It's kinda over time for them and the staff. They also like to have all classes complete two rounds by the end of racing Saturday night.


Of course, if you were only running Stock and Super Stock, as we're discussing in this thread, you could run class during the day on Saturday, as part of qualifying, get two rounds of actual eliminations in, and still run a combo, and possibly even Top Stock/Top Super Stock in the evening.

[B Parker]

To Tim, Ken and all that were involved in running the race I apologize. Theirs not a good enough excuse why I was not there last year. Especially for someone like myself that loves racing Stock as much as I do. It doesn't matter where the race was held. The Management from NHRA was smart enough years ago to devise a point system and hooked most of us in. But when you look at it what really are the points worth? Unless you are really putting in the effort to go after the Division Championship or a National top ten. The points in the end are worthless. Then years later they came up with the grade point system. I get they wanted the participation at the Divisional level in order to get into National Events. But now with the low car numbers allowed at the Nationals unless you have a grade of eight or more what are grade points really worth. Lets face it unless we do something to help ourselves our classes have an expiration date. You guys gave us an opportunity to race at an Event with a good pay day and no BS about points to get in. All of us Class racers need to take a better look at races like this one. And realize the people putting them on are doing it for us. These races should not only be at the top of our list to make but also sponsor in anyway we can. BP

[Larry Hill]

I think the promoters do it to make a profit and all of us racers want them to make a profit so we can race with them again the next time.

[Dave Muller]

About all I would need is for the race to be less than a thousand miles away from me and not conflict with a division 7 race.

Sometimes other schedule or budget constraints might stop me but generally that would do it. But out west here it's not so likely.

[Eric Merryfield]

Perhaps a bit of perspective from a outsider here would be helpful.

I'm a outsider? Well I didn't grow up watching my dad do it, I just started doing it 15 or so years ago.

So I don't have the same experiences that 98% of the forum does. I run a small business like many and 100% of the money in it is mine and at risk so I can relate to the promoters, tracks, sponsors and the racers. At least I should be able too!


BUT, I have supported a lot of these races, over the years that were listed when I could. Big $ opens too in Canada which also suffered from poor turnout but have not been previously mentioned......got grade points and got to compete for up to 25K at one open...........10K many times at Napierville, Beards, Tylers, Kens, the allstar race that paid 10K for $100(right Barry?), etc etc etc


Why? How could I not? Its just fiscally irresponsible to not go and try to compete for the best return on your ahem investment, support fellow racers, and go and experience the labors of love that have been put on.....Some of the best times at the track have been at these events, they are so enjoyable in so many ways.

I do think its possible though for a race of this nature to be successful....but it would have to have a different focus.....Stock and Superstock may just need a 501 c 3 formed to try and preserve the heritage. Putting on a race for the benefit of the charity.....Support it or it will go away......

Perhaps the racers can support Tyler's race......I'll try. Its another labor of love event. Its not like he can pencil in a rate of return for like his other races that cater to their bracket racing events...

FYI racers, actually the NHRA experience isn't as bad as you paint it to be, considering whats involved with putting on a event. Don't like the national event crowds, and schedule etc, go to a divisional, don't like them, go to the opens, go to the the association races........

Go to stay sharp, for the independent races that you WILL be attending in the future correct?

Eric

Re: What would it take for you to attend a Sportsman Race?

To have At least more than O N E Sportsman Points Race in California.
Bakersfield is a double and thank you.

[my69396]

I am still of the mind that all divisions need a Sports National's. A race with all the NHRA trappings, tech, record setting, grade points, division points and Wally's. Believe it or not the racers that are in Stock and Super Stock are there for that recognition. To make it monetarily viable there needs to be some draw. More payout, contingency would make some difference money wise. The big dollar races that don't have these trappings are just money races. I am not saying that they don't have a place. The long and short of it is we built NHRA Stock and Super Stock cars and that is difference between class racers and bracket racers. The biggest problem with this is NHRA. Has anyone tried to get in touch with the division contacts lately? I tried before and after the holidays and no response. Until they decide we deserve a voice we are up a well known creek.