Blanket policies on HP Factors

Mike Volkman · 01-09-2023, 03:07 PM

Can't speak to stock combos but can to SS.

Several years back (10-15 years) NHRA started splitting the same engine combination up - AT THE RACERS REQUEST - to protect their combinations. We called it the Bob Dennis rule. Smart guy who had 57000 combinations of Olds engines.

I get it we all spend lots of time and money to go the fastest.

If the head gasket was .002 different, the cc or runner volume varied by couple cc, smaller vs larger carb it was now a different combination. Back then, we always picked the best engine combination with the parts given. There was (and probably still is) a 305 combination that has a head p/n listed among several others in the blueprint sheets, but is not in the approved head list with port volumes. Because of this bogus p/n it now make it a different combination even though there are no specs. I think there were 5 or 6 305 SS combos (trying to remember) as a result of this splitting of hairs. It resulted in never being able to push the other guy out as they just played a number/paper game with combo. Nothing new.

At one time, again in SS, there were 4-318 combinations to pick from. Now there are many across SS because of the change.

This rolling back on combos into base groupings started 2-3 years ago. The 67-69 350/300 was the 1st I knew of. They were NHRA rated anywhere from 313 to 332 with the same engine. They're back to 2 now with a rating of 313 for OEM head and 318 with aftermarket. And, NHRA did not hurt the higher factored combos - actually had the racer in mind -and based it off the OEM head, or lower HP rating. Good deal I thought.

I for one applaud them for taking the initiative and think that since we are a performance based class, that we should all race each other and not hide.

TERRY HEMBREE · 01-09-2023, 04:24 PM

I questioned Pat C last year why the 68 and 69 350/396 Camaros had different hp ratings because the 68 only had been reduced to 330. He said the reason was because of the intakes and if I wanted him to consider lowering the 69 to 330 then I had to send him both year intakes so he could scan them to see if they were equal. I had no interest in doing that so I left it at that. So now for some reason the Chevelles and the 68 Camaro are at 330 the 69 Camaro is still 340.

Chipper Chapman · 01-11-2023, 12:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TERRY HEMBREE

I questioned Pat C last year why the 68 and 69 350/396 Camaros had different hp ratings because the 68 only had been reduced to 330. He said the reason was because of the intakes and if I wanted him to consider lowering the 69 to 330 then I had to send him both year intakes so he could scan them to see if they were equal. I had no interest in doing that so I left it at that. So now for some reason the Chevelles and the 68 Camaro are at 330 the 69 Camaro is still 340.

Yep, makes no sense at all, and when questioned you'd swear you were talking to a politician.

1347 · 01-11-2023, 01:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chipper Chapman

Yep, makes no sense at all, and when questioned you'd swear you were talking to a politician.

Have you not taken note the phrase thats been said over and over on here " One of the problems is we have too many combos"?

This starts to fix that problem, but like everything else when it comes to class racers, nothing makes everyone happy. Including myself.

Chipper Chapman · 01-12-2023, 09:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1347

Have you not taken note the phrase thats been said over and over on here " One of the problems is we have too many combos"?

This starts to fix that problem, but like everything else when it comes to class racers, nothing makes everyone happy. Including myself.

Well I geuss we should all be running one and only one approved combo, you know, to make it easier on everyone involved.

pmrphil · 01-12-2023, 09:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chipper Chapman

Well I geuss we should all be running one and only one approved combo, you know, to make it easier on everyone involved.

Would that be 10.90, 9.90, or 8.90? Nope, still too many classes.

Billy Nees · 01-12-2023, 09:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1347

" One of the problems is we have too many combos"?

Soooooooooooo, how do "they" fix the problem? Go back to the "good-old-days" of not factoring body styles?

Jim Kaekel · 01-12-2023, 10:31 AM

Personally, I think that much of the issues with the AHFS could be fixed by using a common sense approach. For example, If a 396/325 is rated 325 in a '68 Camaro, I can understand why it's rated slightly less, say 318, in a larger, heavier Chevelle. On the other hand, when there is a 20, 30, or 40 horsepower difference on the same engine in two different bodies styles, that shows no common sense at all.

01-09-2023, 03:07 PM	#1
Mike Volkman Junior Member Join Date: Nov 2020 Posts: 79 Likes: 32 Liked 497 Times in 50 Posts	Re: Blanket policies on HP Factors Can't speak to stock combos but can to SS. Several years back (10-15 years) NHRA started splitting the same engine combination up - AT THE RACERS REQUEST - to protect their combinations. We called it the Bob Dennis rule. Smart guy who had 57000 combinations of Olds engines. I get it we all spend lots of time and money to go the fastest. If the head gasket was .002 different, the cc or runner volume varied by couple cc, smaller vs larger carb it was now a different combination. Back then, we always picked the best engine combination with the parts given. There was (and probably still is) a 305 combination that has a head p/n listed among several others in the blueprint sheets, but is not in the approved head list with port volumes. Because of this bogus p/n it now make it a different combination even though there are no specs. I think there were 5 or 6 305 SS combos (trying to remember) as a result of this splitting of hairs. It resulted in never being able to push the other guy out as they just played a number/paper game with combo. Nothing new. At one time, again in SS, there were 4-318 combinations to pick from. Now there are many across SS because of the change. This rolling back on combos into base groupings started 2-3 years ago. The 67-69 350/300 was the 1st I knew of. They were NHRA rated anywhere from 313 to 332 with the same engine. They're back to 2 now with a rating of 313 for OEM head and 318 with aftermarket. And, NHRA did not hurt the higher factored combos - actually had the racer in mind -and based it off the OEM head, or lower HP rating. Good deal I thought. I for one applaud them for taking the initiative and think that since we are a performance based class, that we should all race each other and not hide. Last edited by Mike Volkman; 01-09-2023 at 05:35 PM.

01-09-2023, 04:24 PM	#2
TERRY HEMBREE Junior Member Join Date: Mar 2013 Location: Blue Ridge,Ga Posts: 21 Likes: 24 Liked 20 Times in 7 Posts	Re: Blanket policies on HP Factors I questioned Pat C last year why the 68 and 69 350/396 Camaros had different hp ratings because the 68 only had been reduced to 330. He said the reason was because of the intakes and if I wanted him to consider lowering the 69 to 330 then I had to send him both year intakes so he could scan them to see if they were equal. I had no interest in doing that so I left it at that. So now for some reason the Chevelles and the 68 Camaro are at 330 the 69 Camaro is still 340.

01-12-2023, 10:31 AM	#8
Jim Kaekel VIP Member Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Michigan Posts: 1,229 Likes: 133 Liked 535 Times in 110 Posts	Re: Blanket policies on HP Factors Personally, I think that much of the issues with the AHFS could be fixed by using a common sense approach. For example, If a 396/325 is rated 325 in a '68 Camaro, I can understand why it's rated slightly less, say 318, in a larger, heavier Chevelle. On the other hand, when there is a 20, 30, or 40 horsepower difference on the same engine in two different bodies styles, that shows no common sense at all. __________________ Jim Kaekel 3836 STK