Toyota Supra in Stock Eliminator (Poll)

[Billy Nees]

Ya know, I don't post much on here anymore. Mostly by choice.
The Factory Cars (and the Toyota, You asked for it, you got it) aren't the things ruining Stock. The costs of building these combos and the insultingly ridiculous purses are.
Daren, if you really love Stock Eliminator as I truly do (even for all of it's faults) would you PLEASE make your next project an inexpensive, entry-level combo which can be built by "mere mortals" without engineering degrees, a machine shop in their garage and an unlimited line-of-credit at their Bank?
As good, fun, simple to build and CHEAP as some of my latest projects are, I just don't seem to be able to convince any young people (or old poops who act young) to get involved.
Maybe it's my charismatic charm ;-).

[GUMP]

I hear Ya Billy!

You know that I have a couple of "old car" projects around here on my "when I get to it list"!

I almost got my Firebird back out a few years ago, but ended up lending the drivetrain to Robbie Butler. That stuff ran pretty good in GT/QA. Even held the record for a short while.

The Cutlass P/SA was running pretty good until I brought it home for updates. That has turned into a frame-off project....

Both of those cars should be an example of how deep my passion runs.

I also help a few racers from time to time. But, that's a story for another time!

[BRETV]

Originally Posted by Billy Nees

Ya know, I don't post much on here anymore. Mostly by choice.
The Factory Cars (and the Toyota, You asked for it, you got it) aren't the things ruining Stock. The costs of building these combos and the insultingly ridiculous purses are.
Daren, if you really love Stock Eliminator as I truly do (even for all of it's faults) would you PLEASE make your next project an inexpensive, entry-level combo which can be built by "mere mortals" without engineering degrees, a machine shop in their garage and an unlimited line-of-credit at their Bank?
As good, fun, simple to build and CHEAP as some of my latest projects are, I just don't seem to be able to convince any young people (or old poops who act young) to get involved.
Maybe it's my charismatic charm ;-).

Billy, I know it's a FFFFord, but someone can buy a 2011 Mustang 3.7 V6 car for cheap and run it in M/SA, would be a good combo, for not an arm and a leg. I think a guy in D1 ran one a couple years ago.




Bret Velde
2003 I/SA
Coming soon

[Billy Nees]

Originally Posted by Billy Nees

Ya know, I don't post much on here anymore. Mostly by choice.
The Factory Cars (and the Toyota, You asked for it, you got it) aren't the things ruining Stock. The costs of building these combos and the insultingly ridiculous purses are.
Daren, if you really love Stock Eliminator as I truly do (even for all of it's faults) would you PLEASE make your next project an inexpensive, entry-level combo which can be built by "mere mortals" without engineering degrees, a machine shop in their garage and an unlimited line-of-credit at their Bank?
As good, fun, simple to build and CHEAP as some of my latest projects are, I just don't seem to be able to convince any young people (or old poops who act young) to get involved.
Maybe it's my charismatic charm ;-).

This should be it's own thread. Sorry Daren.

[BRETV]

People spend $100K on a boat to catch fish and throw them back and the maintenance is even more. LOL





Bret Velde
2003 I/SA
Coming soon

[goinbroke2]

Originally Posted by GUMP

So, in your world. I can build a 1969 Camaro with a 396/375 that will run 1.20 under and not use one original part in the entire car, that would be OK? But, if I build a new Supra from the ground up using the same rulebook and it runs 1.00, it should be penalized?

How would you build a -1.2 69 camaro? With the parts that have been proven to work by the people that worked on their car until it was a 1.2 under combo.

My point is that ANY new car toyota or not, that is included in the guide and first pass is -1.2 you have to wonder, was it the person or the factoring?

This is even different than finding a combo that is a ringer that nobody else saw/built. Anybody CAN build a low factored car (my mustang.....) but it's obvious the factoring is soft on 302 2bbls. They were in the guide and nobody built them, hp lowered and they get built with the intent of the ahfs will level it back out.

One person builds a toyota and qual #1. More people build the same car and either (1) they too are also -1.00 which means the factoring is soft, or (2) they are just running the index which proves the -1.2 by another person was the builder not the factoring.

A third scenario is, some guys would run -1.2 regardless of what they build because they have unlimited resources....if so, this would be proven by scenario (2)

If you are in the third scenario department, when someone else builds one, it will be obvious as well. Good luck regardless of how it turns out, you have put in the leg work!

[Alan Roehrich]

Originally Posted by GUMP

So, in your world. I can build a 1969 Camaro with a 396/375 that will run 1.20 under and not use one original part in the entire car, that would be OK? But, if I build a new Supra from the ground up using the same rulebook and it runs 1.00, it should be penalized?

How many years, and how much time and money went into making that Camaro that fast? Six or seven prominent engine builders, over a couple of decades, supported by dozens of racers, who also spent years and money testing headers, gears, torque converters, clutches, transmissions, gear ratios, etc.


Never mind the 396 Camaro, the Toyota isn't in those classes, yet. So what about the guy with years and thousands in his Nova, Camaro, Mustang, Duster, Demon, etc., in the class it does run? They don't have the aftermarket parts you seem to use as an excuse. And few of those guys have $100K disposable laying around.

[Alan Roehrich]

Originally Posted by Billy Nees

Ya know, I don't post much on here anymore. Mostly by choice.
The Factory Cars (and the Toyota, You asked for it, you got it) aren't the things ruining Stock. The costs of building these combos and the insultingly ridiculous purses are.
Daren, if you really love Stock Eliminator as I truly do (even for all of it's faults) would you PLEASE make your next project an inexpensive, entry-level combo which can be built by "mere mortals" without engineering degrees, a machine shop in their garage and an unlimited line-of-credit at their Bank?
As good, fun, simple to build and CHEAP as some of my latest projects are, I just don't seem to be able to convince any young people (or old poops who act young) to get involved.
Maybe it's my charismatic charm ;-).

And new cars aren't going to bring in a bunch of new racers either. They didn't last time, and they won't now.


Stock and Super Stock are for a rare breed of people who thrive on a specific challenge to develop ET and MPH within rules and limitations, rather than with "bigger", "more", nitrous, or supercharging. You're NEVER going to bring in droves of new blood. People are not raised that way anymore. Even within drag racing, when you start talking about making something fast in Stock or Super Stock, or even Comp, 90% of all people's eyes glaze over and they get a confused look on their face.




Unfortunately, neither Stock nor Super Stock has Roger Brogdon, either, and NHRA simply doesn't care.

[JP1738]

Originally Posted by Alan Roehrich

How many years, and how much time and money went into making that Camaro that fast? Six or seven prominent engine builders, over a couple of decades, supported by dozens of racers, who also spent years and money testing headers, gears, torque converters, clutches, transmissions, gear ratios, etc.

I can agree with some of this, but it's important to keep in mind that although this Supra is a new combo, GUMP will be applying all of the stuff class racers already know to it to make it fast. Outside of the chassis and the B58 engine, he's not reinventing the wheel. He already knows what to look for in header design, torque converter specs (that still might take a little bit of figuring), gear ratios, etc. I'm sure this car will unload with the best converter and transmission technology, close to perfect header design for the turbo housing, and all the right stuff in the engine that we already know will make it faster.

As much as I'm sure he'd like to be given credit for how fast it runs out of the gate, it will be a culmination of work he's put into the car and the development with combo-specific stuff along with all the tried and true stuff class racers have figured out over the last half century.

[Wayne Scraba]

I for one, would like to see a bunch of photos of the car. Even though I have no dog in the fight and certainly never will, I find it all very interesting…