Was it just me? - Page 5

Jeff Foster · 06-21-2008, 01:16 PM

i was offened that he said I was hiding things.

CBS · 06-21-2008, 08:10 PM

Jeff...

Don't be offended...we apreciate you filling us in on the details of things we wouldn't normally hear....we need to inform you if we think something is wrong.....and I'm sure we will in the future....

thanks...

CBS
Rock Haas

Tom Goldman · 06-23-2008, 10:53 AM

I missed this thread at first,but I'm glad I read it. .......I video all my runs, so I know what the variance on frame count for the reaction times is for my camera. .....At the Atco points race I tested on Thursday,making 6 passes . ...Five were between .011 and .018 all at the same frame count, one was a .080! at the same frame count.........I initially wrote it off as a fluke untill I had a .079 light at the same frame count ,in the same lane ,at the same time of day! ............I know I heard several other racers with similar r.t's at the same time of day......... On Saturday after a .015 lite during time trials, I felt confident staying in the same lane, again I got bit by a .069 light.........The common factors on all the runs were that the sun was on that side of the track, and all the runs were within five minuits of the same time of day, 5 pm.............At this point, I suspect that a weak infared sensor can react to the low sun angle, similar to the shine back problem we had when we had photocells....... Jeff, can you comment on this? ... ..Tom

shooter66 · 06-23-2008, 04:53 PM

Wow I just seen this sorry for putting my 2 cents in late....

First off it is WELL KNOWN among local bracket racers that the timing system there is ..well...for a better choice of words...."iffy" at best. The rollout is .20 different between the left and right lane...nearly ALL BOX RACERS there have to swing the box to stay green....and you see it in the time slips on an avg day you are 1-2 slower lane to lane....which adds up with the rollout differance. I know I know its checked out every day...but im telling you first hand this is how it ACTUALLY goes down. Plus if it rains for beg, borrow or cheat your way out of the right lane!!!!! I have watched 10-12 red lights in a ROW happen and no one stops to wonder why.

I had a slip in my dragster from there last year where I was 14 mph down on the brakes, had the same 1000ft as my time shot and broke out by .035...HUH...and it said I took .05 stripe....I had a wheel on him at best!!!

For what its worth I was swinging my box lane to lane all weekend at the National except for 1 time shot and I was -.015 red....It was a self imposed test to see if they were using 66's timing equipment or thier own.

I still race there....but I will tell you It makes me real nervous when I get those slips some days.

sstSteveM · 06-23-2008, 05:01 PM

Jeff,
I was just tossing out some random questions, I appreciate the frank response and I hope to take you up on your offer some day. I hope others racers will do so as well!

Maybe we can nip any issues beforehand, I think Tom is onto something.
Last year we had to halt a race for 15-20 minutes because the track said the sun was interfering with the timing system. Since the sun's rays are 80% in IR, it makes perfect sense that at the right angle it would make a sensor believe it isn't broken, and for sure delay the feedback.

They did this on the show Mythbusters when they disabled an IR security system by shining a light at the sensor.

You know what would be cool is if we didn't have invisible IR for beams, but had visible red laser beams for staging and or the finish line. Talk about cool data and great finish line shots!

-steve

Jeff Foster · 06-28-2008, 03:06 PM

Just wanted to let everyone know that RT66 replaced the IR on the left lane stage beam, and tested with cars that said they had problems with it and the showed everything is now good with the startline.
Jeff Foster

chebby2 · 06-28-2008, 05:32 PM

Buy backs anyone?Best outta 3?

348 · 06-28-2008, 09:53 PM

I"m confused .

The nose on my dragster is 2.75 high. If what you guys are sayingis correct I am tripping the beams at the starting line with the front tires and tripping the finish line beam with the nose. This would make a huge difference on how much stripe I am taking depending on whether I am running a door carthat is tripping the finish line with the tires or another dragster that is tripping with the nose.

06-29-2008, 12:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeff Foster

Don I take major offence to that! I hide nothing, everyone gets there timeslip with all their info and they are the only one who knows if it wrong or not. If a racer sees a problem with his times and bring his time slips to me to show me I can do the the math and pull sheet to look at others.

I did not say you were hiding it, however, with ICARD I was able to identify these problems ASAP that a track could not dispute.

Every business, including mine, needs Checks and Balances. My checks and balances come from my customers who give me feedback on what works and what does not. I make improvements everyday to my system because of it.

ICARD was NHRA's and your checks and balance so to speak.

This is not against you, it is against unfair competition. If something is wrong how do racers know without real information?

Jeff Foster · 06-29-2008, 11:28 AM

Don you keep saying you could find it. Only the racer who knows what his car should and usualy does would know if there is a problem, And this is what you said "Now they can hide the problems because nobody knows any better" well I am "they" so you accused me of hiding things!

06-21-2008, 01:16 PM	#41
Jeff Foster Junior Member Join Date: Jan 2003 Posts: 74 Likes: 0 Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: Was it just me? i was offened that he said I was hiding things.

06-21-2008, 08:10 PM	#42
CBS VIP Member Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Commerce, Mi Posts: 1,387 Likes: 1 Liked 4 Times in 2 Posts	Re: Was it just me? Jeff... Don't be offended...we apreciate you filling us in on the details of things we wouldn't normally hear....we need to inform you if we think something is wrong.....and I'm sure we will in the future.... thanks... CBS Rock Haas

06-23-2008, 10:53 AM	#43
Tom Goldman VIP Member Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Allentown,PA Posts: 2,477 Likes: 892 Liked 883 Times in 237 Posts	Re: Was it just me? I missed this thread at first,but I'm glad I read it. .......I video all my runs, so I know what the variance on frame count for the reaction times is for my camera. .....At the Atco points race I tested on Thursday,making 6 passes . ...Five were between .011 and .018 all at the same frame count, one was a .080! at the same frame count.........I initially wrote it off as a fluke untill I had a .079 light at the same frame count ,in the same lane ,at the same time of day! ............I know I heard several other racers with similar r.t's at the same time of day......... On Saturday after a .015 lite during time trials, I felt confident staying in the same lane, again I got bit by a .069 light.........The common factors on all the runs were that the sun was on that side of the track, and all the runs were within five minuits of the same time of day, 5 pm.............At this point, I suspect that a weak infared sensor can react to the low sun angle, similar to the shine back problem we had when we had photocells....... Jeff, can you comment on this? ... ..Tom __________________ Tom Goldman 1500 SG , 1506 STK

06-23-2008, 04:53 PM	#44
shooter66 Junior Member Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 50 Likes: 0 Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: Was it just me? Wow I just seen this sorry for putting my 2 cents in late.... First off it is WELL KNOWN among local bracket racers that the timing system there is ..well...for a better choice of words...."iffy" at best. The rollout is .20 different between the left and right lane...nearly ALL BOX RACERS there have to swing the box to stay green....and you see it in the time slips on an avg day you are 1-2 slower lane to lane....which adds up with the rollout differance. I know I know its checked out every day...but im telling you first hand this is how it ACTUALLY goes down. Plus if it rains for beg, borrow or cheat your way out of the right lane!!!!! I have watched 10-12 red lights in a ROW happen and no one stops to wonder why. I had a slip in my dragster from there last year where I was 14 mph down on the brakes, had the same 1000ft as my time shot and broke out by .035...HUH...and it said I took .05 stripe....I had a wheel on him at best!!! For what its worth I was swinging my box lane to lane all weekend at the National except for 1 time shot and I was -.015 red....It was a self imposed test to see if they were using 66's timing equipment or thier own. I still race there....but I will tell you It makes me real nervous when I get those slips some days. Last edited by shooter66; 06-23-2008 at 04:56 PM. Reason: forgot something

06-23-2008, 05:01 PM	#45
sstSteveM Junior Member Join Date: Jun 2003 Posts: 49 Likes: 0 Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: Was it just me? Jeff, I was just tossing out some random questions, I appreciate the frank response and I hope to take you up on your offer some day. I hope others racers will do so as well! Maybe we can nip any issues beforehand, I think Tom is onto something. Last year we had to halt a race for 15-20 minutes because the track said the sun was interfering with the timing system. Since the sun's rays are 80% in IR, it makes perfect sense that at the right angle it would make a sensor believe it isn't broken, and for sure delay the feedback. They did this on the show Mythbusters when they disabled an IR security system by shining a light at the sensor. You know what would be cool is if we didn't have invisible IR for beams, but had visible red laser beams for staging and or the finish line. Talk about cool data and great finish line shots! -steve

06-28-2008, 03:06 PM	#46
Jeff Foster Junior Member Join Date: Jan 2003 Posts: 74 Likes: 0 Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: Was it just me? Just wanted to let everyone know that RT66 replaced the IR on the left lane stage beam, and tested with cars that said they had problems with it and the showed everything is now good with the startline. Jeff Foster

06-28-2008, 05:32 PM	#47
chebby2 Member Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 256 Likes: 0 Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: Was it just me? Buy backs anyone?Best outta 3?

06-28-2008, 09:53 PM	#48
348 Junior Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 3 Likes: 0 Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: Was it just me? I"m confused . The nose on my dragster is 2.75 high. If what you guys are sayingis correct I am tripping the beams at the starting line with the front tires and tripping the finish line beam with the nose. This would make a huge difference on how much stripe I am taking depending on whether I am running a door carthat is tripping the finish line with the tires or another dragster that is tripping with the nose. __________________ Bill Hurst S/C348H ET348H

06-29-2008, 11:28 AM	#50
Jeff Foster Junior Member Join Date: Jan 2003 Posts: 74 Likes: 0 Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: Was it just me? Don you keep saying you could find it. Only the racer who knows what his car should and usualy does would know if there is a problem, And this is what you said "Now they can hide the problems because nobody knows any better" well I am "they" so you accused me of hiding things!