Ladder Bar Car: Trans Brake or Foot Brake?

Bill Rolik · 12-11-2008, 11:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tom Goldman

Bill, There are still some really great working cars out there with ladder bars. ........The key,as in any suspension is not how many attachments the links have ,but how you dampen them. .......A quality set of double adjustable shocks will allow you to make the ladder work nearly as well as the 4 link. .....The setup between foot and trans brake is one primarly of launch rpm ,converter design,and shock settings. ....Good luck with your return. .......Tom

Wow,

AMXers are on the case!

Because I last drove in pre-historic times (1989), neither my Duster nor the Cuda benefitted from today's quality shocks. However, the Cuda at least had the orange Koni's on the front. 11.5 X 32 Firestones were all that was needed on the back. Since the Cuda is a bit of a lard-*** at 3500+ pounds, I am sure this was a factor. Also, I have never driven with a brake, so initially, I would go with the foot brake anyway.

Tom, thanks much for the input!

Bill Rolik

Jeff Lee · 12-11-2008, 12:34 PM

Tom is correct, shocks make all the difference. I would look at AFCO or Santuff.
Kip Martin has the SS/K record in the ten-teens with his 289/210 Mustang using ladder bars. And that car can go as high as any car out there! Interesting design too. The driver side bar is "toed in" quite a bit which allows him to launch with no pre-load to keep it straight. His 60' times are barely over 1.30.
I used to run an 11.5x29.5 on that old AMX. Worked very well for me.
I wonder if a 11.5x32 like your old Firestone is still available? I could probably use something like that.

Tom Goldman · 12-11-2008, 02:25 PM

Bill, you'd be suprised how many of the really good leaving ,quick cars in SS are on the foot brake. ....Many of these cars are faster on the foot because of converter flash and chassis hit. ....Mostly it comes down to driving style, which do you feel more comfortable with on the tree. ........I agree with Jeff, I'd go with Afco shocks,their valving selection is great for drag applications. .....An 11.5x32 is'nt available from Phoenix anymore,but the 12.2x31.25 still is @about a 100" rollout.......This used to be a real popular tire for medium HP SS cars a few years back, but lost favor when the radials took over. still a good choice for running the car in "bracket" mode......... ...Tom

Bill Rolik · 12-11-2008, 07:22 PM

Tom,

Thanks again for the reply.

AFCO at one time was strictly oval track-oriented, but I understand that their drag products are excellent as well. Also, I have known Sonny Stancil for many years, and he has always spoken highly of the Santhuff pieces. When I bought the Shadow GT car from Sonny, it had Koni's in the rear. And later, when he repurchased it from me (before it went to Ken Etter, who owns it now), Santhuff got the call again. At the appropriate time, I will investigate their offerings for a stock-bodied non-GT/non-strut car such as the Cuda.

Also, I used 12.2 X 31.25 "straight" and "W" tires on my Duster, which was equally as good with weight distribution, but weighed about 60 pounds less. I am sure the Cuda would do nicely with either one. The 5.86 gear (Dana) would remain initially. I see no scenario where the car would need a 14 X 32 tire. I have no history with radials, so that thought can be entertained at another time.

And yes, the initial approach would be to have properly matched shocks, retain the ladder bar, add wheelie bars, and for familiarity and simplicity, stay with the foot brake. Structurally, this is an outstanding car. But other peripherals, such as fuel system including cell, electrical upgrades, weather station, air shifter, aluminum radiator, current-technology cylinder heads/valve gear etc. would be needed. It does have Lamb front discs with drums in the rear. The short block that was in the car when last run would probably be tough to significantly improve on. A second option would be to go with a low compression 340 for GT/JA. Cosmetically, it is currently all White, with some color options being considered.

Sorry for being a bit long-winded, and thanks again for your help!

Bill Rolik

12-11-2008, 12:34 PM	#2
Jeff Lee VIP Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Anthem, Arizona Posts: 2,766 Likes: 0 Liked 3 Times in 3 Posts	Re: Ladder Bar Car: Trans Brake or Foot Brake? Tom is correct, shocks make all the difference. I would look at AFCO or Santuff. Kip Martin has the SS/K record in the ten-teens with his 289/210 Mustang using ladder bars. And that car can go as high as any car out there! Interesting design too. The driver side bar is "toed in" quite a bit which allows him to launch with no pre-load to keep it straight. His 60' times are barely over 1.30. I used to run an 11.5x29.5 on that old AMX. Worked very well for me. I wonder if a 11.5x32 like your old Firestone is still available? I could probably use something like that. __________________ Jeff Lee 7494 D/S '70 AMX

12-11-2008, 02:25 PM	#3
Tom Goldman VIP Member Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Allentown,PA Posts: 2,475 Likes: 887 Liked 865 Times in 235 Posts	Re: Ladder Bar Car: Trans Brake or Foot Brake? Bill, you'd be suprised how many of the really good leaving ,quick cars in SS are on the foot brake. ....Many of these cars are faster on the foot because of converter flash and chassis hit. ....Mostly it comes down to driving style, which do you feel more comfortable with on the tree. ........I agree with Jeff, I'd go with Afco shocks,their valving selection is great for drag applications. .....An 11.5x32 is'nt available from Phoenix anymore,but the 12.2x31.25 still is @about a 100" rollout.......This used to be a real popular tire for medium HP SS cars a few years back, but lost favor when the radials took over. still a good choice for running the car in "bracket" mode......... ...Tom __________________ Tom Goldman 1500 SG , 1506 STK

12-11-2008, 07:22 PM	#4
Bill Rolik Member Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Hasbrouck Heights, NJ Posts: 122 Likes: 1 Liked 47 Times in 9 Posts	Re: Ladder Bar Car: Trans Brake or Foot Brake? Tom, Thanks again for the reply. AFCO at one time was strictly oval track-oriented, but I understand that their drag products are excellent as well. Also, I have known Sonny Stancil for many years, and he has always spoken highly of the Santhuff pieces. When I bought the Shadow GT car from Sonny, it had Koni's in the rear. And later, when he repurchased it from me (before it went to Ken Etter, who owns it now), Santhuff got the call again. At the appropriate time, I will investigate their offerings for a stock-bodied non-GT/non-strut car such as the Cuda. Also, I used 12.2 X 31.25 "straight" and "W" tires on my Duster, which was equally as good with weight distribution, but weighed about 60 pounds less. I am sure the Cuda would do nicely with either one. The 5.86 gear (Dana) would remain initially. I see no scenario where the car would need a 14 X 32 tire. I have no history with radials, so that thought can be entertained at another time. And yes, the initial approach would be to have properly matched shocks, retain the ladder bar, add wheelie bars, and for familiarity and simplicity, stay with the foot brake. Structurally, this is an outstanding car. But other peripherals, such as fuel system including cell, electrical upgrades, weather station, air shifter, aluminum radiator, current-technology cylinder heads/valve gear etc. would be needed. It does have Lamb front discs with drums in the rear. The short block that was in the car when last run would probably be tough to significantly improve on. A second option would be to go with a low compression 340 for GT/JA. Cosmetically, it is currently all White, with some color options being considered. Sorry for being a bit long-winded, and thanks again for your help! Bill Rolik