Best Pontiac Powered Stockers

[oldskool]

Originally Posted by Billy Nees

For a 350 and larger combo, the only decent one would be this one. It's not without it's "issues" though. It doesn't have a whole bunch of compression and it's the only one of the GM 350s that uses a 2G carb with a 1.18 venturi (same carb as a 305). All of the others have at least the 1.25 venturi 2G.

OK, I'd like to explore this 2-barrel thing a little more. Assuming that several of you Chevy guys have run 2-barrel combos at some point.

So, what I'd like to zero in on is the power potential, of the smaller carb with the 1.186 venturi vs the larger carb, with the 1.25 venturi.

(1) For those of you who have tried both size carbs on your sbc engine, how much of a power or ET difference did the bigger carb make ?

(2) Lookin at Class Racer Info site, I see that a '73 350 2-barrel sbc is factored at 224hp, in an F or X body, when using factory heads.

http://www.classracerinfo.com/Engine...MAKE=Chevrolet

The '73 350 Pontiac is factored at 210hp.

http://www.classracerinfo.com/Engine...3&MAKE=Pontiac

But, as Billy said, it has less compression & a smaller carb. Just makes sense that this size engine has more power potential, if it has more CR & a bigger carb. Obviously, this is assuming that the 2-barrel carb would be the limiting factor, or "choke point" of a 350 cube engine.

I assume the increased CR & larger carb would definitely give the sbc engine more power potential. I'm guessing that those 2 advantages would more than make up for the 14hp difference. But, how much more ?

I assume there are racers out there running this combo, especially in a Nova. So, for you GM guys who have done a lot of testing & racing, with 2-barrel carbs, please consider these differences & let us know if you think this Pontiac engine has the potential to at least run safely under the car's index. Don't know if the body would make a difference. But we'll assume a Ventura, which would be similar to the Nova for this question.

After all these years, I assume there have been lots of dyno & drag strip testing of different 2-barrel carbs on sbc engines. Any links to any of the results of some of this testing that might show the power potential difference between small & large 2-barrels ?

[Billy Nees]

Originally Posted by oldskool

Just got some new info. As said, I've never before seen or heard of any 2-barrel Pontiac Stockers.

But, an eyewitness says that he remembers that Don Himes used to run a Pontiac Lemans wagon, with a 2-barrel. Said he don't remember it being a high qualifier, but quick enuff to compete. This was before Don had the GP.

I'll just take a guess that it was a '73 wagon with the 350 2-barrel. And, may have been the car that got NHRA to lower the hp factor. But, it could have had a 400 2-barrel.

Anybody else remember this car ?

Don't have any pics of it. But i did find a nice pic of a '73 wagon with a GTO front on it.

It was a 350/2V car. I think that it ran in either W or X/SA during the "Pure Stock" era. I believe that he had a 77 LeMans wagon body stashed somewhere and he always wanted to do a 6X 400 for Q/SA.

[Billy Nees]

Umm, the 73/350/224 has the 1.25V carb and to my knowledge nobody runs it. The popular combo is the 69-70/350/224 combo and it uses a 1.375V carb. BIG difference.

[oldskool]

Originally Posted by Billy Nees

Umm, the 73/350/224 has the 1.25V carb and to my knowledge nobody runs it. The popular combo is the 69-70/350/224 combo and it uses a 1.375V carb. BIG difference.

Hate be so ignorant about it. But I have to ask how many different size Roch 2-barrels were there ?

So, aprox how much would the 1.25V carb slow that sbc 350 ?

[Mike Jones]

I believe there were three: 1.250, 1.312, 1.375
I was told the difference is about five tenths
MJ

[oldskool]

Brought up this subject on the SS thread. Thought I'd inquire some more here.

Most all Stock class racers know about the "acid porting"(or whatever it's called nowadays) of Stocker heads, to increase flow and allow more power.

I assume that it was at one time illegal, but some guys got so good at doing it that it was sometimes hard for a younger, inexperienced tech guy to tell. So, I assume that NHRA just told the tech guys to let it slide. At that point, I assume that lots more guys started having it done, and head flow got even better, to the point that for many engines, if you don't have the latest, greatest head job technology applied to your heads, you can't hope to go really quick.

I also assume that's one of the reasons why the same combos that have been beat on for many years just keep getting quicker & quicker.

So, now that almost "everybody is doin it", aprox what is the cost to have the latest Stocker tricks applied to Stocker iron heads ? Are we talkin maybe $5,000 ? More ?

For you guys who have run Pontiac powered Stockers for a long time, how much difference in ET potential is there between as-cast iron heads, with the correct valve job done, and the heads that have had the full max-power Stocker head treatment done ?

Are we talkin a full sec ? 2 sec ? or ?

For the popular Pontiac 350, 400 & 455 Pontiac combos, what would ya'll say is the minimum head work that would have to be done to as-cast iron heads, just to make enuff power to run barely under the index ?

I know this seems like a stupid question, to many here. But, not everybody who loves Stocker racing has mega-bucks to spend on it. I know that the days of just driving your street car in the gate & being able to win a race are long gone.

But, I'm trying to see if there is a way to build a Pontiac combo that will not cost mega-bucks. I remember posting that I saw Don Turk's car for sale, for $10, 500. And, I've seen other race-ready, quick cars for less than $30k. So, for guys who can do most of there own work, there has got to be a way to build a slow Pontiac Stocker, for a very reasonable price. Obviously, $5,000 or more for head work, will increase the cost of that build, quite a bit. So, I'm just trying to see if one can be built without spending those big bucks on head work.

I remember the low budget build thread, that Brent Flynn did here, a few years back. I'm gonna go back & see what he did for heads.

http://classracer.com/classforum/sho...&postcount=222

So, as of early 2016, Brent did not have high dollar heads. Said he only had about $4k in his engine, with some cheap used rods/pistons. As mentioned, Adam Strang ran 10's with TRW pistons. They cost less than $350 now. And the legal 760g Eagle rods are less than $400.

http://classracer.com/classforum/sho...&postcount=228

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Speed-Pro-T...nd!71251!US!-1

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Eagle-CRS66...kAAOSwl7NaqCjn

At that time, he wanted to have some heads done, that would have cost $2-$3k.

Any useful insite into building a low(lower) budget, slow Pontiac Stocker, would be appreciated.

[Billy Nees]

Originally Posted by Mike Jones

I believe there were three: 1.250, 1.312, 1.375
I was told the difference is about five tenths
MJ

Mike, add to that the 1.09 and the 1.18. I've never seen a 1.31.
I think that does it for the large-base 2Gs.

[Billy Nees]

Originally Posted by oldskool

Any useful insite into building a low(lower) budget, slow Pontiac Stocker, would be appreciated.

http://classracer.com/classforum/showthread.php?t=44903

Ya know, as far as the other stuff, "Gentlemen don't tell".

[Mike Jones]

Originally Posted by Billy Nees

Mike, add to that the 1.09 and the 1.18. I've never seen a 1.31.
I think that does it for the large-base 2Gs.

I`m certain you are correct. I confused the 1 1/4 with the smaller size. Thought the others might be small base. Thanks Billy.
MJ

[oldskool]

OK, I found something on Brent's thread that I wanna ask ya'll about.

http://classracer.com/classforum/sho...&postcount=250

I know that the Shubeck lifters, & I assume the tool steel lifters, are quite expensive.

BUT, he mentioned the Delphi lifters, that have the hardened foot. I wanna be sure as to exactly which lifters that is referring to.

The reason I'm interested is because I bought some Jegs lifters, because they were cheap & because they were said to be made in the USA. They cost under $50.

They do have the low groove, denoting the hardened foot.

So, I'd like to know if these are the lifters that were referred to in the linked post. OR, are we talking about some special lifter that Delphi makes for racing ?

Below are pics of my Delphi/Jegs lifters. I took one apart to show the guts. I also bought some real snap rings, from Fastenal, to replace the flimsy wire retainers the lifters come with.

By the way, Brent posted that he bought Rhoads V-max Super Lube lifters for his Stocker engine. Those now cost nearly $200. Rhoads says they use Hylift Johnson lifters cores, then modify 'em to make Rhoads lifters.

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/r...w/make/pontiac

For a bigger cam, he was gonna have the cam & lifters "coated". So, how much does it cost to have a cam & lifters coated, nowadays. And how much extra life will it give to the cam ?