Re: Drive By Wire
 

Sean, I don't think I would have told that!
Your gonna have them seeing black helicopters :D

Re: Drive By Wire
 

LMAO Ed.

Re: Drive By Wire
 

yea, that's one big conspiracy

Re: Drive By Wire
 

Sean,
I already knew that!

Re: Drive By Wire
 

Ed, you have a right to your opinions just as I have a right to mine.

I never said it could be done by a high school kid. But I can tell you personally that I have worked with a Chrysler engineer in the past and I know how the code can be altered. I was also working with a Cummins engineer when the first wave of 6.7 issues came about. During a test drive with me at the wheel and the engineer typing on his laptop, he uttered the "words hold on tight". The next thing I knew we had the rear tires smoking while on a steady 60 mph cruise.

Code is broken and re-written every day. The aftermarket programmers do it all the time to factory controllers. If you think that someone won't spend the time or money to have this done, that's your right. But with Chrysler having Hill Ascent, Hill Descent, Traction Control, Sway Control, Stability Control, plus countless other factory programmed controller functions designed run the throttle plate as needed (not as driver commanded), I don't believe it would be that hard for someone to alter code or write new code to produce throttle stop effects.

Why don't we just make it manditory for all cars to have a cable or linkage operated throttle plate. Wouldn't that solve your footbrake racers issues??

Re: Drive By Wire
 

Having been a computer "geek" for 30 years - no code is unbreakable

Hackers do it everyday for nothing - for the fun of it.

Image what you could pay someone to do.

All you need, is to know what you want them to do and they will figure out how to get the desired results using the sensors to do things they were not originally intended to do.

It is the reason to move to digital technology and get off of 50 old analog "stuff".

The MDS digital 7 allows the old to meet the new in the area of timing. "slurry" can be accomplished in that box with out buying it in the box (MSD model). GPS can be used to control ET in the same NHRA approved box.

Fuel and throttle control need the latest new parts and sensors - hence the reason to have a new car

Do you really believe double 00 lights and dead on double 00s should happen as much as they do? Some of the big bucks bracket races are UNBELIEVABLE - if you know what I mean.

RF triggers which pickup the button impulses sent by the starters trigger are a fact. Why do you think you can get spark plug wire feedback which interferes with timing and the box itself?

Do you think there are just that many good drivers and combos?

It has been a computer video game for a while.

:-) peace

Re: Drive By Wire
 

Oh oh! A black helicopter just landed on the grassy knoll! :D :D

Better call Jesse Ventura.

Re: Drive By Wire
 

Here's another thing most don't know about the CJ's they have a wheel speed sensor that turns off the 2-step when there moving, can we say traction control? is this legal in stock or any other class. It looks like there are no rules for fomoco!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Re: Drive By Wire
 

Kinda like some stockers with Dedenbear timers controlling ignition timing.

Re: Drive By Wire
 

Look-up tables are just that...program screens that allow you to change parameters and adjustments to your operation programs.....the programming codes are "beneath" this and ALWAYS have a "back door" to allow engineering the ability to alter any glitches or make necessary adjustments.....at the dealership level, techs do not have access to the back door and cannot alter this programming, they can only bring up the look up tables and alter the "enablers" .....

in the DBW system the throttle is opened by a simple servo motor through a gear drive....servos can be made to operate in "ms" millionths of a second (look at CNC equipment as an example)....to go from idle to full throttle you have to ramp up from the initial idle position to full speed then ramp down when you approach full throttle in order to not damage the system by slamming it open and closed.....for OEM they need to keep the ramping so the system will last a long time without failure....without long term durability, racing, the speed of the system can be altered to open as fast as you want......all you would need to do is alter the ramping as a percentage of full throttle (when the ramping would start) and the rate (how fast to go to full throttle) and you have throttle stop and traction control all in one unit.....this is programable to the point of being almost seamless to detection in operation....

and you can still let off the throttle at 1000' if you want to........


D L Rambo....

Re: Drive By Wire
 

Computers are really good at measuring stuff like 1320'. Speed sensor on a computer car is a output, it could be used to measure the distance of the race track down to a fraction. You would need a real time device to tell the computer where the the car was on the track verse what the computer is seeing from the speed sensor and compare them, say the real time sensor tells the computer that the car is at the 330' mark but do to tire slip the the speed sensor says it is at 331' you program the computer controlled throttle to slow the car down, or speed it up to what the car needs. And if you had enough reserve built into the car, it would react very quickly.

Optical speed sensors are available that are very accurate, accurate enough to be used in law suits when car company's are being sued and need precise data. That sensor would be the only sensor that would need to be hidden on the car. And that sensor is about 2" long by about 1" wide and 3/4" thick.

How much would it cost? a lot less than a 100k stocker.

Re: Drive By Wire
 

let's face it.....distance "counters" have been OEM for over 20 years and if people think that they haven't been used for racing purposes (this is the point where I throw my head back and laugh) they are just kidding themselves.....the VSS reads "CPM" counts per mile and some increments are so small that they are more accurate than anything GPS could ever think about doing.....

There should be a rule that ALL cars in stock, computer controlled or not, have no sensors or electrical connections after the engine block, this would give tech a lot fewer headaches when looking a car over....the sticking point now becomes the computer controlled valve body....I just don't think they should be in a class car.....


D L Rambo.....

Re: Drive By Wire
 

Within 5 minutes of searching the internet, found a real time speed sensor

http://www.gmheng.com/speed_sensor.htm

Re: Drive By Wire
 

Dealership techs can only refash the vehicle computers with factory calibrations. They have no "backdoor" into the software. I do custom calibrations for new car dealerships all the time, because they can't do it. This is how I have made my living for the last 15 years.

Requiring cable throttles would stop a lot of this silliness. Throttle control is not the only way to slow one down.

Re: Drive By Wire
 

Hey Travis, does that mean the NHRA is not sending out 2011 Rules Books with the National Drgagster again this year with our membership?

Re: Drive By Wire
 

We are not talking about dealer technicians working on street cars. We are talking about a big corporation who's first mission statement when they got back into drag racing was I am sure "We are going to win". A little encryption goes a long way!

Re: Drive By Wire
 

[QUOTE=Andys dad;223607]
Do you really believe double 00 lights and dead on double 00s should happen as much as they do?QUOTE]

Yep. As much as I believe too many people think they're better drivers than they actually are.

Re: Drive By Wire
 

Come on Larry.....you're sounding like you have too much time on your hands.....lol

You need an EFI car to take up your time.....and keep these thoughts out of your head.....

A closed loop system is possible in any class...Of course it's possible

but its illegal.....that's why we don't do it...

Your Bad *** Mopar is certainly capable of having a closed loop system if it has an MSD....

You want to be known as a cheater??? we certainly don't.....

We usually have this discussion in super gas every winter....about this guy or that guy because his car popped at the finish line and he went dead on....and he wasn't looking or whatever....like everybody was watching and listening....

Most of you run dead on anyway without any help.....how would we know the difference....?

We have a conscience.....you're implying that some people don't....

(We do have mechanical linkage on our car)....lol

Rock Haas

Re: Drive By Wire
 

I didn't know closed loop was illegal? I haven't tried to run it that way because I've been afraid the O2 sensor would screw up a run for me. Now I don't have to think about it.

Re: Drive By Wire
 

Art, I have tried closed loop, nothing there. Not had one single vehicle run faster or more consistent in closed loop. Just one more thing the carb guys think we are doing.

Not as silly as this drive by wire crap, can't think of anything lately that has quite come up to this level. :D

Btw, LT1 & LS1 Camaro/Firbirds all have cables.

Re: Drive By Wire
 

Hey Rock,
What the heck do you know? Just because you have an oem calibrator on your team. In fact, I can't believe you don't have a factory ECU and throttle body on your CJ. What were you thinking?

See you at the races,
Wayne Kerr

Re: Drive By Wire
 

By closed loop I meant with ground speed....not on the EFI system...

Hey wanker.....both of our calibrators are top notch.....but not cheaters...well...at least

one of them isn't....lol

Re: Drive By Wire
 

Are after engine control computers legal in stock?

Like this one?

http://www.diyautotune.com/

Re: Drive By Wire
 

Rock congratulations on your Super Gas Div. 3 Championship.

I have not spent any money on the car, I'm still waiting to see what NHRA is going to do next year. The engine is broke, it is still in the car and the tires are flat.

Re: Drive By Wire
 

That's not the one most would choose. Most use FAST, BigStuff3, ACCEL DFI, or Holley's system.

Re: Drive By Wire
 

A lot of the Neon Street and Strip guys use the megasquirt systems. Some swear by them most have nothing but trouble. They get what they pay for. My system (ViPec) costs about $1800 complete with sensors Etc. They gag at the price I paid. Their megasquirts are between $300 and $800. I guess you get what you pay for.

PS. ViPec will be at the PRI Show

Re: Drive By Wire
 

So...Would an OEM DBW be outlawed by tech for any class whether it be Street Leagal night or SS?

Re: Drive By Wire
 

Aren't the DBW Mustangs running the OEM box?

They have to for the satellite link up. :D

Re: Drive By Wire
 

lol Wait till the Camaro's come out.
Look at all the stuff GM's Onstar can do! :p

Re: Drive By Wire
 

Yeah, but with honest hp ratings they won't be competitive. I can't imagine anybody building one.

Re: Drive By Wire
 

I did'nt have trouble with them (DIY MegaSquirt )! I asked for a quote! They said they would get back to me! They never did! No Problem! Hello BigStuff3!

Peter

Re: Drive By Wire
 

Try ViPec. It does more than the others that are twice the price.

Re: Drive By Wire
 

The MegaSquirt is legal in Stock. It is an NHRA approved aftermarket computer...

And it is uncommon that they didn't back to you Art... We found them ready to turn the shop upside down to get our Challenger running and they did it in quick order.

We just didn't give them the kindof track testing they wanted to get our tunes good.

But they are geat folks and will "usually" do exactly what they say. (I only said usually becuase if Art says tehy didnt get back after saying they would, I beleive him.)

David
The New Hemi Guy

Re: Drive By Wire
 

David, Off topic, but could you please PM me the phone # and contact person at DIY Megasquirt.

Thanks in advance,

Re: Drive By Wire
 

Hi David. It wasn't me that said that. I just mentioned the things I've seen on Neons.org I doubt they used the DIY version. Most of them were hand made.

Re: Drive By Wire
 

I have a buddy who uses the MegaSquirt on his road race car. His is the DIY kit. He had some issues but figured them out himself.

He is a professor of Thermaldynamics/chemistry/metalurgy though.

Re: Drive By Wire
 

New information for y'all to rip, tear, chew,spillfuelon, and otherwise. Hot off the presses 5:00PM Yesterday CST. Dyno Test on a GEN III Hemi reveals that at 70% throttle, the motor lost 10% HP on a pull from 3000 RPM to 7500 RPM. Now the 4 bbl Throttle Body on a GEN III has progressive linkage, and the secondaries are only open scant thousanths of an inch not to be confused with a meter, and the primaries are open 70% out of 100% It is the TB off the stock eliminator GEN III motor. I would suspect a Throttle Body which was oblong, or round as opposed to 4bbl configuration would lose less.

Re: Drive By Wire
 

Pretty much in line with what I have seen on my dyno, Jeff. With any throttle body I have tested 10%, 15% less throttle angle does not cause the huge power losses everybody wants to think.

Re: Drive By Wire
 

For ****z and grin, try a tug with factory stock 6.1 SRT8 heads vs the so called upgraded heads that came with the DP's.

Where was Donato when we needed him? lol