Re: S/SS combo @ BIR 2011
 

Check with Mike Beard.....he had a neat little Excel program made up that you could crunch all your numbers.

Re: S/SS combo @ BIR 2011
 

That looks great, but from a business standpoint - why would any track pay out every bit of your entry fees? I mean, if you can convince them on the basis that you will be able to draw a crowd and sell concessions etc... That's worth it and a great proposition! But in the case of Brainerd on a typical bracket race weekend the crowds are zero to none, the car count has (in the past several years) been low and inconsistent, and we are more work to cater to than another bracket class with the scaling aspect for each run.

I think that Glen and the people involved are on the right track to build up a program that has a nice payout with a fair entry to hopefully get the local S/SS racers involved in a great facilities program again. If all works out well and it turns out to be a united group of racers, then there might be a leg to stand on for raising payouts beyond what is proposed. For now, I think it would just be greedy to expect the track to put the entire race on for free.

Two races in one weekend, also a good idea. For me - one day is great. I am eager to have Sunday open at home for once!

Mike Mans

Re: S/SS combo @ BIR 2011
 

Glen, all our races are 100% payback. We don't pay the track to be there, and we do not require any money from the track to have us. We show up, race, and have a good time. The track makes their money, from us, by way of crew/spectator fees (normal admission is $10 per person), concession and souvenir stands, and any tech card fee they charge at the gate (in the past, anywhere from $10 to $40, of which sometimes they kick some into the purse). We have our own people to handle entry, payouts, ladder and pairings, etc. The only thing we need from the track is the people to tech the cars in. You could work a deal out with the track, to the benefit of them, or for all involved. Say the track charges a $20 tech card fee, and you get the 23 cars I mentioned above. That's $460 for the track. Some tracks may elect to keep it all, or put x-amount back into the purse. I leave that up to each track's preference as to what they want to do. It usually works out pretty well for both. Even at $75 per car into the purse, $1,725 total for 23 cars, you can still make for a decent payout without it being top-heavy. $25 second round, 75 third, 150 fourth, 400 r/u and 800 win. Just tossing some ideas out there. Travis mentioned a two-day event. Even if you don't have two races in those two days, a Saturday test session plus S/SS Gamblers race would work out. The track keeps the test and tune tech card money, and do a lower entry Gamblers-style race, something like $50 to enter, and pay back winner, r/u and semifinal (maybe 1/4 final if there are enough cars--we've done this format in the past as well). I think these races (local assocations for S/SS, .90 racing, etc) will be the way to go in the future as people tire of the costs and hassles with NHRA/IHRA racing.

Re: S/SS combo @ BIR 2011
 

Mike Mans is exactly right, the track has to be able to make something off this
deal. Brainerd is a very nice but expensive facility with im sure tons of expenses
and if we want a place to race, must remain a viably business entity to remain open
and give us this opportunity. All of our cars are expensive take Lyn Johnsons real
R-code mustang and Koppiens COPO camaro as examples they arent complaining
about payouts they just love to race, going to a divisional is not financially a good
match as the fuel will kill your winnings unless you win the whole thing and if you
dont your way backwards financially compared to a combo 1hr from your house.

Re: S/SS combo @ BIR 2011
 

Thanks again
Allot of good info here but BIR has a very low
spectator count as mike mans pointed out.
I could not even imagine trying to get BIR to go for
a deal like you folks have got going.
Count your blessing and be thankful for it.
That is awesome for you guys!
We have a different set of circumstances at hand.
Not only do we have basically 0 spectators
we have allot of races that for one reason or another
are not happy to race at BIR. I am trying to fix that!

However the program could possibly benefit from
some more advertising and exposure.
As S/SS Racers have a marketable product.
After all who doesn't like watching a beautiful
drag car standing on the bumper! It's like a car show with wheelies!!!!

Again thanks for the ideas & info all in-put is good!
We need good ideas
I am just trying to be a positive go between for the
racers and BIR.
Thanks
Glen DeMenge

Re: S/SS combo @ BIR 2011
 

Let's look at it like this Glen...the track has quite a few spots it 'reserves' for the year. If I recall correctly it has been $225 no electric hook-ups, $275 w/electric. Not sure how many "spots" are rented, but lets assume 50 for the year (random number), probably more being the car count is roughly 300+.
Let's now say it's 50/50 electric, no electric. Total = $12,500 for 5 events. Pretty much 100% profit---agree?
Now throw in the fact that you can rent an open spot for the weekend ($30 if I recall correctly...which a few do)...let's say 10 per/event. That adds another $1,500 for the year. Total = $14,000 No payout. 100% profit before you even open the gate.

Bracket 1 and Bracket 2 average 70 cars (est.) @ $80 entry. Total = $11,200 per/wknd x 5 events = $56,000 per/year

S/SS average 16 (est.) @ $100 entry. Total = $1,600 per/wknd x 5 events = $8,000 per/year

S/ST, S/G, S/C average 60 combined let's say @ $100 entry. Total =$6,000 per/wknd x 5 events =$30,000 per/year.

Now let's throw in Trophy, Bracket 3, & Jr's. I'm not sure what the entry fee is for these as I've never run them. But let's say $30 for Trophy and assume 30 cars (probably more, since there are 2 Trophy classes). Total = $900 per/wknd
Bracket 3, I will assume 25 cars @ $40. Total = $1,000 per/wknd
Jr's, I will assume 20 @ $25. Total = $500 per/wknd
Above for 5 events. Total = $12,000 per/year...not to mention, very little Payout for these.

Let's again assume, every entry has at least 1 crew member, family member, or friend that comes to watch @ $10 per/day (2 day event). Total =$6,000 per/wknd or Total = $30,000 per/year

Add all that up and you get $150,000 per/year (conserative number too in my book). That's doesn't include Test-n-Tune, camping, on site condo rental (which are super sweet...stayed in one last season), golf carts/scooters, advertising, consessions & goats. And that's just for the drag racing. The road course is run often at the same time the drag strip is. I fail to see how this track isn't profitable.

Now I agree, back in the 90s car counts were closer to 400 + per/weekend. I recall winning one race in Bracket 2 (no gizmo) that was 8 rounds!

What has changed? Why don't racer's want to race at one of the BEST drag strips in the country? MY $.02----Long Tech lines, long waits at the gate, security issues, long waits in the lanes, slow to payout when you do earn some money (weeks most of the time), very few runs in the course of the weekend.
I realize this is what your working on Glen, along with the Bracket reps. on this new formed committee.

In the past 2 years alone, I have run my super stocker at Topeka, Cordova, Tri-State, Route 66, Interstate Dragways, Oahe, and BIR. I won't even touch on where I have bracket raced. Yet the only place I ever see 'security' is BIR. What's the purpose? I guarantee if I EVER need security, it will be the Co. Sheriff that needs to be called. Some staffing overhead can be cut.

Re: S/SS combo @ BIR 2011
 

Travis
I wish you would have been at the meeting.
The track opened up & showed us the total $ for the year. IN , OUT, AND HOLD.

You may not believe this,... but by god... THEY HAVE BILLS TOO!!!!!!!!

As far as 100% profit maybe you are not seeing the whole picture here.
First you need to look at the property tax on the huge establishment it's self.
Then insurance on buildings & public liability.
Electric bills for the lighting and all those "pure profit" camping out-lets.
Sewer & port-a-potty pumping and R/M on the showers and toilets.
Garbage pick-up and dumpster rental.
Track scrubber and all the equipment to prep the track.( and all the gas and R/M on all that stuff.)
VHT
General up keep
Staff
Security
(The staff and security are being scaled back this year.)
and on and on and on.
NOW
The bottom line is this. BIR IS a for profit biz.
If you can't handle that, I don't know what I can do for you?
If you look at the numbers you put down that total will not go all that far in operation costs.

I would like to keep this a positive thing so lets just get some more cars up to BIR for the S/SS RACES!!

By the way.. I have run my own shop for 20 years and have never seen this 100% profit you speak of??

Thanks
Glen DeMENGE

Re: S/SS combo @ BIR 2011
 

Glen,

Can you post the scheduled race dates for 2011?

Kari and I will do our best to support BIR and your efforts.

We may only run her car until mine is back together.

Keep your positive attitude. You are the right man for the job!

Re: S/SS combo @ BIR 2011
 

Thanks for the support.
I truly do think this is going to be a darn good year to race S/SS at BIR

2011 BIR Race Dates
May 6-8
May 27-29 LODRS
June 3-5
July 8-10
Aug. 5-6
Aug. 18-21 Nationals
Sept. 16-18 E.T. FINALS
Oct.1-2

Re: S/SS combo @ BIR 2011
 

Glen,

I guess we can agree to disagree on my math. But if the bracket program is pulling in an est. $150,000 alone, add in Nationals, the LODRS Event, Street Legal nights, and all the road racing events....I'm still at a loss on how it can't be profitable.

I guess we just have to see if it is possible to get the 'magic' 33 S/SS cars to show up at BIR so we could race for a fair payout. Someone mentioned the Koppien's previously. This IS one of my points I've been trying to make. Where are the Class racer's from 4-6hrs away? They sure haven't been racing at BIR!

The 100% profit I am refering to Glen is charging for the pro pad parking. There is no payout involved, so there for it is straight profit. Now I realize the insurance, employees, maintenance, property taxes, etc. I GET all of that. However, that isn't the racer's issue in my opinion. The track itself needs to find backing in the form of advertising if that is the case.

I DO hope this works! And again I will do what I can to be at the events I can with either my Super Stocker or my Bracket car.