Re: Submit 2014 Rule Change Requests
 

Pistol Pete stated that the AAA/S , AA/S, BB, CC stock cars ,both stick and auto have the same index, then just combine these classes together and you cut 4 classes out right away easy. Would keep the AHFS really busy. Again , I believe the FWD have already paid their dues.

Re: Submit 2014 Rule Change Requests
 

Really? Grab a traditional stocker in a higher class and run a new car heads up.

I'm not suggesting singling FWD cars out for special punishment.

Funny, you're willing to make changes that don't affect you, but unwilling to even consider changes that do.

Re: Submit 2014 Rule Change Requests
 

And there lyes the problem...everybody is out to protect their turf, the entire concept of saving the eliminator be damned.
I don't have a NItro Joe right now...how many racers even race FWD? 1% of all Stock Eliminator? If that???

Re: Submit 2014 Rule Change Requests
 

There are 19 FWD Cars, but you CANNOT DISMISS The Class All Together.
Even if you had 1 car.

Re: Submit 2014 Rule Change Requests
 

Why not? Maybe they need to drop the classes with extremely low participation. Too many classes now.

Re: Submit 2014 Rule Change Requests
 

Yeah. You'll note we run A/SA mostly, and sometimes CC/SA. The first thing I mentioned, dropping the 1/2 pound weight breaks, directly affects us. I'd pretty much have to build another engine to move up or down a class, and we'd have to decide before we left the shop what class to run. We'd be pretty much tied to the 8 pound class, for better or worse, at least until we got to where I could finish the 7 pound class engine. Honestly, that puts us in with the new cars, and without room to move much. We could build a 396 for the 9 pound class, I suppose.

So while it might make it a little tougher on us to start, over the long run, especially if class was run more often, it would help the whole class.

I'm still convinced that running class at every event, as well as paying points for class, records, and qualifying, would be good for the class, and not just by making the AHFS work faster. It would also encourage people to build combinations that had a fair amount of competition in order to score points toward a championship.

Bringing more performance, and more heads up racing, back to class racing would bring some sponsors back. Face it, they need to sell parts. If performance doesn't matter enough, they don't sell enough parts, and they don't have a reason to give a damn about the class.

It would also still allow the guy who isn't, and for what ever reason can't be, the fastest in his class, a shot at running the regular eliminations and winning.

Re: Submit 2014 Rule Change Requests
 

now having class at every national race by awarding points towards a championship
makes alot of sense now.

that's a great idea for keep running class.

Re: Submit 2014 Rule Change Requests
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by rseibenick
Pistol Pete stated that the AAA/S , AA/S, BB, CC stock cars ,both stick and auto have the same index, then just combine these classes together and you cut 4 classes out right away easy. Would keep the AHFS really busy. Again , I believe the FWD have already paid their dues.


Really? Grab a traditional stocker in a higher class and run a new car heads up.

I'm not suggesting singling FWD cars out for special punishment.

Funny, you're willing to make changes that don't affect you, but unwilling to even consider changes that do.
__________________
Alan Roehrich
212A G/S

Alan , you are right , combining these classes would not affet me or the rest of the FWD cars as they did in 2005 when they combined the FWD stick and auto cars to cut down the # of stock classes. NHRA has added 5 new classes since then. I would not propose combining the higher class cars or combining any of the stick and auto classes as they are now. I put that out there to just say , if NHRA needs or really wants to cut down the # of stock classes , then just don't " punish the FWD cars again, find other ways. And yes , I would consider changes that would help the stock class racers and you had some changes if used, that would directly affect you. You also stated "roll the FWD cars into the regular classes". This change would affect me and the other FWD racers ,but don't know how that would affect you. I feel that NHRA cannot roll the FWD cars in fairly in with the RWD cars . I admit I am sticking up for the FWD racers ,as I did and a lot of other FWD racers did,when NHRA was considering combining the FWD cars back in 2005. Did not see many RWD racers doing that. Been NHRA racing since 84 and presently have 3 FWD race cars and have been running FWD since 1995.. Also I am in the process in building a lower class car RWD car , to add to my collection. Can you say ADDICTED. Hope that NHRA will come up with some great ideas for change to keep the Sportsman racing alive and well.

Re: Submit 2014 Rule Change Requests
 

Again, by "find other ways", you mean other ways that don't affect you directly. Where as a lot of us are willing to accept a lot of changes across the board that in whole affect everyone.

Like I said, for the good of the class, I'm willing to accept tightening the weight breaks to where our odds of seeing a new car we can't hope to beat, no matter how much I step up our program. And we can't move out of those classes without a complete and extreme change in our combination.

Factoring the FWD cars in to regular classes is a simple matter of mathematics. It can be done, and it can be done fairly.

The guys like us, in the higher classes, have paid a lot higher price for the last "saving of the class" with the new cars, than the RWD cars paid a few years ago when their classes were consolidated. I'd be willing to wager a few bucks that the traditional fast muscle cars have had to face more heads up races with new cars that they can't win, than the FWD cars have seen against other FWD cars since their classes were consolidated.

While I have no desire to see anyone "punished", I'm not seeing how properly factoring FWD cars into regular classes is "punishment", nor am I seeing a valid reason for any group, FWD included, to be excused from possible changes.

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Guess , I just feel that like Billy said " its a RWD , FWD thing, and feel that the FWD cars cannot fairly be factered into the RWD classes. My opinion. I guess we will just have to wait and see what possible changes NHRA comes up with "for the good of the class" to help the Sportsman Stock and or Super Stock racers.

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I raced a stick-turbo-FWD Stocker in BF/S and AF/S. It was #1 qualifier on many occasions and record holder in both classes. When I left it alone, it was very consistent. I fail to see what is special or unique about a FWD car that requires any special considerations. In fact, I thought there were some advantages as the car was a real good back half (of the track). Guys that left after me (which was always) saw me past the 330' as their light turned green and thought they would reel me in, no problem. They sure had to work at catching me at the finish line as it typically ran 102-103 MPH in the mid-13's with a best corrected MPH of 105. Most RWD drivers didn't expect that kind of MPH looking at the dial on the window.
If you have an under-powered carb or FI FWD with no turbo, your at the mercy of wind and atmospheric changes just the same as a 273 2bbl RWD Dodge. It's what you put yourself into when you built the car.

But to be clear, I don't think doing anything with FWD is a problem solver as there just aren't enough of you to be a factor in the grand scheme of things.
Combine all the other classes by weight breaks or transmissions. Make the races flow better, make the fans in the stands stay put and stand up and cheer, make the sponsors happier. And most of all, keep the eliminators.
Or have nothing for your class car but bracket racing.

Re: Submit 2014 Rule Change Requests
 

there's a wholehearted suggestion by ed...
no participation just drop your class !!

lets see ive got 30g in a 60 chevy wagon and cause NHRA has screwed all the rules up about class winners and the eliminator since wally died you fee i should just take it when you decide U/SA is no longer a class cause no one races in it much ????

carefull ss/ja aint real popular either !!

captain jack

p.s. how about this for the committee " we dont need anymore rule changes leave our class alone"

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Jack you are right-on, Ed' there are to many classes is BS

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Sure put the FWD drive cars in the same classes as RWD. All you have to do is make the RWD car run the stock gear ratio the car came with. And the stock (reaL STOCK) suspension. That would level the playing field Like you all want.
Big difference in FWD cars is most of us have to flog the cars ourselves. There are no Summit or Jegs quick fix parts. Most RWD cars are cookie cutter (especially the apple pie cars). They go to this guy for a trans, that guy for cylinder heads. The other guy for a shortblock. Etc. Etc.
With a FWD car you have to figure it out yourself. There are no quick fix parts. When you get it to fly. It is because you worked on it not because you bought the right combo of parts.

Re: Submit 2014 Rule Change Requests
 

Jack, you are mistaken about how many run SS/JA. Go to the back of the SS section of Nitro Joe's new book. More SS/JA than any SS class ran this last period. #2 behind GT/CA last time. I have never seen less than three show up for class in SS/JA. Not a class you want to run if your afraid of heads ups. I've sure had a few. I can't remember a race with no other cars in my class. I love it.

Sponsors aren't crazy about paying class money for single passes. Thus the new class run off deal.

I still think there are too many classes. I am not alone.

Re: Submit 2014 Rule Change Requests
 

Ed, I believe you should have also said, their are getting to be more really fast SS/JA cars...Besides you, Emmons and Mike Cotton.......I see that Sean Blair is running 10 ohs..... Interesting to me is that Sean has a 68 Dart with an AVS and Mike's car can run a Holley (same HP).......and of course, we all know you need more HP......(Just kidding, my friend)

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Ed I belive the sponsors really don't care as long as they get the publicity. What if you run down the track and both cars are running the same part? I never saw an ad using my car stating "number one qualifier, but he ran a single for class"
The no single deal was all about NHRA giving out less trophies. There aren't that many singles even in Superstock with all classes (way more than stock).
When they first came out with the combo class "brain child". Charlie Neilson told me that I should just add or subtract some weight to change class. He was told that by the tech dept. And that I must be mistaken.

Re: Submit 2014 Rule Change Requests
 

Art, what I was told by one sponsor, that there are too many classes to have to pay. If no racer collects it, NHRA keeps the uncollected money. It's gotten to be too many classes for them to have to pay, especially if no cars run the class. That is one of the major sponsors I was talking to. I know you have also been around long enough to remember class win money, and the product many of them handed out to everybody. Not any longer.

Re: Submit 2014 Rule Change Requests
 

Gary, it cracks me up when Jeff Tueton tells me that.

That's like me telling some one then need to loose weight and get better looking. LOL

Re: Submit 2014 Rule Change Requests
 

Ed I suggested to Charlie. That they give trophies to a classes represented but just pay contingency if there were 2 or more cars. Would that not satisfy the sponsors? He rapidly said no way. All this nonsense stemmed from some crybabies at Indy a few years ago. When some class winners bumped out a couple of fairhaired boys. I was confronted by one and told him that if it was a 2 car (only) qualified field. Could he make the program?
I then told him "I could". It went right over his head.

Ed I could lose a ton of weight. But "Get Better Looking"? I don't think so!!! LOL

Re: Submit 2014 Rule Change Requests
 

I wonder if Bruce is getting tired of my emails yet. :)

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Cary. Bruce is not a friend of FWD or 4 cylinder stuff in general.

Re: Submit 2014 Rule Change Requests
 

Art, I need to lose about a ton also. My Dr says if I would loose ten, I would just be over weight instead of obese. Your evidently much better looking than I. I could stand to be a lot better looking. Just not sure how to go about it. LOL

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Well, if you cut off your head, you'd be better looking AND lose 10 lbs. of ugly fat!
(just kidding Ed!)

Re: Submit 2014 Rule Change Requests
 

That would take care of it.

Re: Submit 2014 Rule Change Requests
 

Ed, the solution is really easy, without losing weight.............SS/KA

Re: Submit 2014 Rule Change Requests
 

Heck, Gary, I run it almost that heavy to keep out of trouble. LOL