Just a heads-up for all 1964 race hemi owners
 

Unless you are running a complete aluminum front end...you have been deleted from the classification guide.
The paperwork was submitted back in the 60's and they have either lost it or didn't bother to look for it.
Chuck Rayburn chuckr426@comcast.net

Re: Just a heads-up for all 1964 race hemi owners
 

I thought the steel nose cars were a one year only deal in 1969? That's what I was told at least.

I have one of the four Chrysler sponsored that year.

Re: Just a heads-up for all 1964 race hemi owners
 

Chuck, you should sell that car . . . to ME!

Re: Just a heads-up for all 1964 race hemi owners
 

Greg,
First, you have to know that my 64 steel nose is an "imaginary" car...it doesn't really exist and these cars haven't really been running NHRA events for the last 44 years.
Sort of makes pricing difficult.

Re: Just a heads-up for all 1964 race hemi owners
 

Hello Chuck ,missed talking to you in Phoenix . The deal with the 64 is about like my corvette. For 25 years, the 71 454 ran with the L88 hood and an extra 40 HP then one day it wasn't legal gone was the hood but they won't take off the extra HP ? Where do those boys in Calif get their logic? thanks Bob

Re: Just a heads-up for all 1964 race hemi owners
 

Chuck,

I met you at Indy a few years ago, and have enjoyed watching your COOL '64 run. I hope that the NHRA gets a clue on this so you can continue competing. Best of luck getting this situation sorted out. I can't believe all the bogus combinations out there, and the bozos in power have to pick on a truly SWEET car like yours. Heck, we're only one winning lottery ticket away from running a HEMI in our '64! LOL!

Have you called your NHRA Sportsman Advisory Council Representative yet?!

Count me as one fan who will be very disappointed (and less likely to attend races) if cool cars like yours continue to be outlawed...

Re: Just a heads-up for all 1964 race hemi owners
 

Chuck,
Are they saying you can't race unless you have the aluminum package installed? Or are you saying the package is not recognized; period? I was always under the impression you could race a factory lite-weight in Stock or SS as long as it's in the books with either the correct parts or (heavier) steel parts in lieu of rare parts?

Re: Just a heads-up for all 1964 race hemi owners
 

Jeff,
They are saying that the only way you can run a 64 race hemi is with aluminum fenders and aluminum hood and hood scoop. The steel fenders and hood were accepted as superceded/replacement parts for these cars 40 years ago and have been running with mixed steel and aluminum components since then. Its not like we can replace the steel with the aluminum components...they quit making the aluminum 44 years ago. That makes the car ineligible to run at NHRA events as a SS/BA and therefore worth about a third of what it was worth a couple of weeks ago.
Needless to say, I'm more than just a little pissed...and getting more pissed everyday. I can't speak for the other 10 or so cars that are affected by this...I can't imagine them not freaking out when they find out.(The intent of this post is to somehow get the word out to those guys.)

Re: Just a heads-up for all 1964 race hemi owners
 

It figures...just would make to much common sense...I guess if it is things like chevy rods in a Ford..Alu-heads and intakes on cars that never had'em i
they have a better chances to "fly" as superseeded stuff!

Re: Just a heads-up for all 1964 race hemi owners
 

chuck i am looking for my copies of the original paper work bill dismuke sent to my dad in the early 1980's about this car combination. these cars were built as business coupes and available with heaters as well , they were shipped with steel on them and had the dealer install the aluminum components as per ordered. as soon as i find the paper work i will post it here. jimi

p.s. greg if you are really interested in a b body hemi car my dad is interested in selling either of the cars.

Re: Just a heads-up for all 1964 race hemi owners
 

Jarn, If you have a B-body for sale please contact Me... 937-623-8126 Thanks Need details and ...

Re: Just a heads-up for all 1964 race hemi owners
 

What about the NASCAR Hemi package for stockers? Right now NHRA let's them run with steel fenders and hood with a fiberglass scoop.

Guess I'll leave mine on the trailer till it's cleared up.

Re: Just a heads-up for all 1964 race hemi owners
 

I was telling my dad about this and he said that back in the 60's Chrysler screwed up and made way to many of these "dealer added parts." He said back then they were giving this stuff away to anyone in the race program. This came from Mr. Tom Hoover the father of the Hemi. If a letter from Tom Hoover would help with this he is retired from Chrylser but is very sharp as he was involved with all these programs back then.

Herb McCandless Jr

Re: Just a heads-up for all 1964 race hemi owners
 

My buddy has been building a SS/CA single 4 barrell Hemi car for 3 years now. If he has to run alum, he is done. Please let us know. He said he found alum front end and they wanted $15k for it. Almost as maddening as us Pontiac TA guys eh Chuck?

Re: Just a heads-up for all 1964 race hemi owners
 

I was wondering where that 64 Plymouth was. I enjoyed seeing it at Indy a few years back. I think NHRA is crazy to do this to these cars. I also disagree with what they have done to the 68 car. Why not givve the guys that have a car that conforms to SS rules the chance to run SS/AA if they want to.Why have to compete with the SS/AH cars if you don't want to spend that kind of money or don't have it to spend. Those 64 cars put a great show on NHRA leave them alone and let them run.

Re: Just a heads-up for all 1964 race hemi owners
 

After many years of these cars being allowed the heavier steel components, WHY the change in the rules. Could there be a competitor with another brand car got tired of loosing class & made a "political" move? If that is the case...what an easy way to get rid of your class competition.... Shame,Shame

Re: Just a heads-up for all 1964 race hemi owners
 

I hope that's not the case Adger. It'd be sort of like the guys who did that to Tony Rhodes and Scott Wilcox with the 67 L-88 Corvettes. It'll be a damned shame if the Hemis get the same treatment.:mad:

Re: Just a heads-up for all 1964 race hemi owners
 

Chuck, I'd love to own a 64-65 Race Hemi car, but I don't see it happening anytime soon. I didn't mean to make light of the situation. I'm all for maintaining the purity of the sport, but if something has been allowed, it shouldn't be taken away, especially when it is of no advantage, and probably a disadvantage. I'd rather see steel replacing aluminum before carbon fiber replacing fiberglass.

Re: Just a heads-up for all 1964 race hemi owners
 

I got an e-mail from David Hakim that he was working with Wesley to get the classification guide changed back. Sure, we'd all love to have an aluminum car. I'd love to have the $10k-$20k that the fenders and hood would cost too! NHRA legalized the Edelbrock heads for Stock and SS to reduce the cost of finding old, wore out heads. Now they turn around and do this. It's hard enough to find parts for 45 year old cars, let alone small production run pieces. I'm thinking about a MW engine now and a flat, steel hood. The new Hemi block I picked up on Saturday is a $3000 paper weight. It only took eight months to get.

Re: Just a heads-up for all 1964 race hemi owners
 

Since the expense of the parts is out of this world why wouldnt fiber glass replacements be legalized for original Aluminum on all brands. The wt wouldnt seem to be less. The availabilty would make them cheaper. Then the AL parts could be protected in the garage and the cost of repairs would be reasonable. I have heard of AL fenders and hoods torn up by motor explosions and THOUSANDS of $ spent to repair the stock AL parts. To me this seems a desirable rule change to make these cars more affordable. They are a BIG part of the SS history and current show. Other brands might also need this to become affordable.
This seems to be a common sense rule much along the line of aftermarket heads, al heads, aftermarket carbs. They are not available to purchase. THE WEIGHT of the car still would enforced as the same....SS and S need these cars for the show.
Thanks

Re: Just a heads-up for all 1964 race hemi owners
 

All good points. Dave Wren still has the aluminum nose 63 Max Wedge Plymouth that he R/U`d at the 68 Winternationals with, and ocassionally bracket races it at Mission, but he told me that the thought of somebody banging into the car is a real concern. Pretty much non existent for replacement parts! I guess thats why he normally runs a 62 Max Wedge clone.

Re: Just a heads-up for all 1964 race hemi owners
 

Nothing against the poster ...and sorry for high jacking....but that cant be the case....the shortage is way more severe for some that dont get them than most they do get them...

Re: Just a heads-up for all 1964 race hemi owners
 

Mr. Butler:

That's the most reasonable, well though out idea I've heard in a long time. -Al

Re: Just a heads-up for all 1964 race hemi owners
 

An old D1 Hemi S/S racer questioned the use of fiberglass in place of aluminum last year to the technical directors. They told him that the Hemi racers got away with too much already and that there was no way they'd let them run fiberglass.

The fiberglass replacement idea was also discussed at Moparts.org last summer.

Re: Just a heads-up for all 1964 race hemi owners
 

I spoke to Bruce Bachelder regarding Fiberglass replacement parts for all cars built originally with Aluminum front components. He stated he would bring it up to the Tech Committee attention for discussion soon. I think the committee make up and thoughts have changed since this was originally considered several years ago, Now is the time to make your opinions known to Bruce and Danny Gracia and your representatives. This seems to be an extremely reasonable idea for them to consider again.
Good Luck

Re: Just a heads-up for all 1964 race hemi owners
 

Well, that was my thoughts for the Edelbrock heads. I wish they picked heads that at least looked closer to a stock head. I certainly don't pretend to understand NHRA in their thinking.

Dick: I'd love to see an aluminum nosed Z-11 or swiss cheese Poncho out there. That was the heyday of Stock and SS. I hope NHRA remembers that two of the Pro classes came out of SS - FC and PRO.

I'd be in favor of heavy (durable) fiberglass that was equal weight to the aluminum, but I think their would be too much bitching about it. Just let us poor folk run the steel equivalents.

Re: Just a heads-up for all 1964 race hemi owners
 

just a question from a fan.
if you can you use reproduction/restoration parts made in japan for camaros, chevelles etc... which are supposedly lighter, why can't you use heavier oem steel to prep vintage race cars too. forget aluminum, this is economics 101. we the fans want to see the beautiful race cars being assembled that we americans live for. wake up nhra. chris

Re: Just a heads-up for all 1964 race hemi owners
 

Chris, You are correct. If Carbon fiber Pontiac fenders, doors and hoods are legal because they have a mesh basis but recognized as lighter I am sure the reality of allowing Fiber glass subsitiutes for Aluminum parts can be argued fairly... It seems to have been an issue but would be a great upgrade to the rules S and SS as cost and availability problems are not limited to motors or trans parts.... This is a much more severe problem for these great cars....

Re: Just a heads-up for all 1964 race hemi owners
 

I thought I read somewhere that IHRA allows fiberglass replacements for the aluminum on the mopars due to the rareity

Re: Just a heads-up for all 1964 race hemi owners
 

I'm all for steel in lieu of aluminum, i.e., heavier replacement parts, not lighter replacement parts. The problem you run into when allowing fiberglass replacement parts is fiberglass turns into carbon fibre. The argument will be " well it's mesh, same difference". And once you allow this then every fiberglass hood ever produced (T/A Challenger, T/A Pontiac, W-30 Olds, etc.) now has a standard to go by and subsequently can cut hood weight in half. Those racers would then have an advantage over their competitors. I imagine all the SS/AH cars are carbon-fiber'ed instead of fiberglass'ed as per OEM but they have their own seperate class and they only have to deal with each other.
Glad to see NHRA is at least looking at these issues. We had aluminuim (non-OEM) radiators addressed this year, now they're looking at fenders and such, now NHRA should pay more attention to racers with fiberglass front bumpers being used in lieu of the (heavy) endura bumpers their cars had as an option.

Re: Just a heads-up for all 1964 race hemi owners
 

Jeff, Sorry but tap on the fender of the next Late model Firebird Stocker you see and decide if it is original or Carbon fiber....

Re: Just a heads-up for all 1964 race hemi owners
 

I don't see what the big deal is about running steel in place of aluminum. To me it is more original to let them run steel instead of fiberglass. They built 64's with steel not fiberglass. It will always be said that the Hemi's are getting away with more. It has been that way for over 30 years in most peoples eyes and will continue for years to come. As they say people who live in glass houses shouldn't throw rocks! maybe NHRA should look around at non hemi cars!

Re: Just a heads-up for all 1964 race hemi owners
 

The fact that some of the cars were sold with steel noses and the aluminum parts were avail over the counter says it all, you should be allowed to run either one, Paul.

Re: Just a heads-up for all 1964 race hemi owners
 

Yes, you can tell the difference between Carbon Fiber and Fiberglass in many ways.

Re: Just a heads-up for all 1964 race hemi owners
 

New one on me! The factory had an impact resistant plastic material, didn't they?

Re: Just a heads-up for all 1964 race hemi owners
 

Jeff, Yes But....my impression is it wasnt the lightest form of stuff available.The important thing in the end is allow the 64 cars to run steel or glass or but be reasonable about body parts costs as you would be about old heads, carbs or.....The cars must weigh correct wt to run. They are an important part of S and SS.
Dick

Re: Just a heads-up for all 1964 race hemi owners
 

no disrespect to the slower cars but hemis, big blocks, vintage race cars et all will help put customers in the stands and turn said customers into fans. regular fans will become fanatics and in turn help keep a most sacred class of drag racing alive and well.
people want to see the fast classes, wheelies and more heads up races. nhra must remember its roots before they are pulled from the ground. hemis thunderbolts cobra jets L88's copos give the racers a way to show these cars, they may help sagging sales to our big 3. fans see their favorite cars brands win on sunday, buy a new or used car or suv on monday. true to their hearts. Last but not least these cars are american history and need to be kept in some spotlight so future generations will appreciate our past.

Re: Just a heads-up for all 1964 race hemi owners
 

NHRA used to have a rule (was it stock or ss?) that the weight bias could be no less than 50% on the front. And there is no reason when it comes to money spent by racers when allowed to purchase aftermarket parts! Like I said, given the choice those with the $$ will have carbon fibre ASAP.

Re: Just a heads-up for all 1964 race hemi owners
 

NHRA has changed the rules for the Hemi cars to allowing steel front end pieces with either the aluminum or steel scoop. The MW lightweights must run the aluminum fenders, hood and sccop. Thanks to Wesley and NHRA and David Hakim and others for helping revise this to a more affordable level (not affordable, but MORE affordable). Check out the classification guides.

Re: Just a heads-up for all 1964 race hemi owners
 

Credit must be given to John Donato from Chrysler Corp as the guy who got this matter straightened out. When you see John at the races give him a thumbs up.

Travis

(Disclaimer: Opinions expressed by me on this forum are exactly that, my opinions.)