More on the new cars and crate motors.
 

At Indy this weekend I had several racers ask me what i was talking about on class racer concerning crate motors? A lot of people thought it was about IHRA crate motor class. Other people thought the new cars wouldn't affect them because they thought they were only A and AA cars. Well this weekend there were two of the Mustangs with their new crate motors in stock. One with a 352 in E/SA and one with the 428 in B/SA. I think the E car went 10.83 and the B car went 10.5 something. I think this was the first race for these cars.
These crate motor deals can affect every class from AA to M, I think. And that's not even considering what's coming from GM. These new cars can affect 95% of all the cars presently running in stock. i doubt if there will be a lot of the 4.6 Mustang built, but even so they will go down as far as I/SA and I/S.

Looking at the poll on this site for people who actually race about 87% of racers think they should either not be allowed in stock or be in their own class in stock. The question this weekend from everyone was " What can we do?". I think there are several things we can do, Whether or not they make any difference I don't know. I have chosen not to go to National events this year. I realize a lot of people won't take that path. I would encourage you to e-mail or write to NHRA, your division director, tech people sponsors or other racers and let them know how you feel. The muffler deal was put to bed by racers taking a stand and the fuel injected cars were finally put in their own classes because racers stood up and said enough.

If NHRA refuses to properly factor thes cars or put them in their own classes they should allow the older cars to run these motor combinations. That is not something I would favor unless they fail to do what's right. I wouldn't mind running against the Ford's and Chrysler's with an 850 carb, Victor manifold, ported fast burn heads, solid roller cam, 12 to 1 compression and roller rockers with a 285 hp rating. Oh wait a minute there is a class for that SS modified.

Re: More on the new cars and crate motors.
 

Do the Mustang engines (352 and 428) have a carb or EFI? It doesn't matter for this discussion, I was just wanting to know.

Re: More on the new cars and crate motors.
 

efi.

Re: More on the new cars and crate motors.
 

The problem is not the fact that these new cars dont have a vin #'s or if they dont come with a rear assembly or have a blower, only 50 exist (so build a clone), etc. Can we say "PAPER CARS" and they are cool. I like the new cars (body styles and technology) and think its good for stock and S/S. The problem is the HP ratings. THAT is the concern of many racers of the old muscle cars and long time "gray beards" in this game. ALL of the engine combos need to be looked at, and RIGHT NOW.....NOT 5 or ten years from now, by a commitie of knowleable racers and engine builders, rated fairly and if the factor puts them at less than 7.5 lbs per HP then.....so be it. They become Super Stockers instead of a really heavy AA/S classed car. If they prove to be over rated somewhat after this is done then pull the HP factor back a little without waiting for the letter writing process requesting a reduction. Do NOT wait for the AHFS to do the job for you. It will never happen. Racers will play the game no matter what. Whats the big deal NHRA and IHRA? The AHFS is long over due to be scraped and eliminate this 1000 foot "dumping". Im sure there are many volenteers who would do this and it would not cost the associations one thin dime other than making a change in the class guide. I guess the higher ups think the racers cannot police themselves and be fair. My 2 1/2 cents.

Re: More on the new cars and crate motors.
 

Right on the mark Terry but they in charge are blind to put it mildly.

Re: More on the new cars and crate motors.
 

What about all the other cars that are shutting off at 1000', how should they be factored?

Re: More on the new cars and crate motors.
 

Wow.....I have to say a)I have an opinion on everything b)it very rarley coincides with yours c)being part of a DP car I have a different view at times d)really dont care where we end up as long as we end somewhere

That being said,

I actually can see a valid point and am not in total disagreement.

The FUNNY thing to me is I dont think most DP owners care as much as everyone else thinks we do. In many ways the CJ and DP cars are a "Cult" as it were an opportunity to be part of unique history, not an opportunity to be unfairly overcompetitive.

Speaking for Us me and the Old Man, if you made us SS tommorow, who cares, we dont, if you rate us at ? who cares. If someone tries to push us out of the game entirley then its on.

If youre saying ALL meaning ALL as in across the board and not just the CJ and DP cars I agree 100% I have found several that Ill bet have never been run and are monsters, scarce cars in most cases and that may be why, a few 4 cyl captive import RWD cars that could be sick. And things like the Cosworth Vega but hell parts are hard on those and the heads suck for reliablity. But if youre saying ALL cars/Combos....heck yeah. Go for it.

I ALSO think and this is a BIGGIE,

We need to Get all cars by Manufactuers in the last 20 years in the guides, ALL of them, Domestic that is. But I cannot believe how many cars arent in that are everywhere on the road and could be very very competitive.

Ive thought about how to form a "committe" outside the NHRA to approach the manufacturers and assist them in submitting them to the NHRA.

I am guessing there are a whole bunch of cars in especially the last 5 years that make a lot of other cars uncompetitive as well across every class there is.

What then ?

I think if you add putting all the newer cars in the guides when youre reviwing the older cars Terry youve got a winner.

Re: More on the new cars and crate motors.
 

Simple.....use the 1/8 mile times and/or the 1000 ft times and adjust from those.....thats a no brainer. Problem is the stock and S/S "world" is relying on the AHFS and we all know thats not getting the job done. Its racer, weather, track altitude manipulated. The HP factors need a human, hands on input from a group (no more than 3) who are familiar and know class racing (stock and S/S) inside and out and who have no connection to a running combo. Some people who want to see better racing (no dumping and no "bracket mode" tune ups.) Some people who have no special desire to help or hinder a paticular brand of car or racer. Some people who can be firm yet FAIR and not show any favortism for the betterment of stock and S/S class racing. No.....I dont think I would want to do it (been there and done that with Top Stock) but I think I could with help from someone like Nitro Joe and his stats. It would take no more than 3 people so the factors and reductions could be done with a simple discussion and vote after reviewing the status of LEGAL cars after they have been certified. None of this AHFS crap like the E body Hemi guys had to endure a few years ago. The real problem is to get NHRA (and IHRA) to go for it. I doubt it would ever happen. My 25 cents worth.

Re: More on the new cars and crate motors.
 

So, why wouldn't you do the Challenger and Mustang the same way?

Re: More on the new cars and crate motors.
 

I would but I dont count......and NHRA wont. They rely on the AHFS......LOL.

Re: More on the new cars and crate motors.
 

The circumstances are different Gump. Think about it. The new cars that have ruffled the most feathers, have not been factored yet and as long as everybody runs soft, it will take a little while to level the playing field. I looked at the numbers for some different combinations and incrementals to include DP's and CJ's and it looks to me that the DP and CJ in AA and A can whip anything out there if they want to. I emphasize the "want to" part. The CJ is no doubt capable of low 9's and 8's might be attainable if the track was good and the tuner turned the wick up a little bit. I know that some out there will not like me saying that, but it is my opinion. Underfactored combinations have been around forever. Just not this much. I am not bashing any particular combination, but the newer cars are the worst offenders. If you can win class running against some of these newer combinations, you may been given the win, or your stuff is that good, or your lucky. I won't go any further than that. This problem is not going away any time soon. You either have to accept that winning class is no longer feasible with your combination or continue to cry on deaf ears. The future of Stock doesn't look too good right now. If rumors are true about the Camaro, then there will be one more car that you can add to the underfactored or bogus category.

Re: More on the new cars and crate motors.
 

Greg
1st of all thanks for trying to help this mess out
I dont agree with all you wrote but one thing will work that is letters to NHRA and to the division directors
What you need to do is write a form letter that we can use and make it so it can be sent to the right people
If we bomb them with letters it will be clear what racers want
Look at the muffler deal racers voices were heard
Also there are a lot more here that read and never post but will send a letter with there name and number to NHRA and the division they are in
So someone that has the smarts to write such a letter and make a link to how to send it will do all racers a favor(well most racers)
What would be a good idea is post a letter and give it a few days for racers to send their thoughts on the letter and when a few days go by post the finale letter with the links and then those that believe in it can send it by the posted link

Re: More on the new cars and crate motors.
 

RE "I would but I dont count......and NHRA won't. They rely on the AHFS......LOL. "


I feel sorry for their kids because they (the parents) probably rely on Santa Claus, too...

Re: More on the new cars and crate motors.
 

Mark i appreciate the confidence in me to write such a letter but I don't think a form letter is the way to go. 300 of the same letter might seem a little odd. Everyone knows what needs to be said. That being said I will post later in the week my thoughts on this and maybe some folks can pick some ideas from them. Please don't cut and paste. Use your own words and thoughts.

Re: More on the new cars and crate motors.
 

I would think 300 letters saying the same thing shows unity
And that is one thing IHRA or NHRA don't want
And really until we have unity we loose and they win
I know we will never have an organization and they know that also but they don't want us anywhere near to one
Greg you have to understand many of us are plain blue collar workers and we don't feel comfortable writing letters for fear we wont work then right
A well written letter we can use I believe would help get people sending them
What do the others here feel about this?
Just imagine a letter that 80% of racers sent and what that would say to them?
Kinda makes you wonder what the power of us all together could do...

Re: More on the new cars and crate motors.
 

I think it a very exciting time right now for Stock Eliminator with all of the fresh late model body cars showing up and Ford stepping up with crate engines. Truly fun to watch.

As a fan watching from the dreaming side of the fence, I do believe these new "50 build" machines should be heavily factored or get their own class to help keep the traditional and long time used combos competitive.

Strangely, NHRA never approved my 2001 Mustang Bullitt for Stock (of which Ford made over 5,000 units) but they continue to approve a car/engine combo that only 50 were made ??

Re: More on the new cars and crate motors.
 

They are here to stay like it or not. Until NHRA has a race and No one shows up then a stand will be made but racers have never been able to unite like that. Pro Stock guys did at Pheonix and that was the first time in years something like that has happened.