More on the new cars and crate motors.

[Greg Hill]

At Indy this weekend I had several racers ask me what i was talking about on class racer concerning crate motors? A lot of people thought it was about IHRA crate motor class. Other people thought the new cars wouldn't affect them because they thought they were only A and AA cars. Well this weekend there were two of the Mustangs with their new crate motors in stock. One with a 352 in E/SA and one with the 428 in B/SA. I think the E car went 10.83 and the B car went 10.5 something. I think this was the first race for these cars.
These crate motor deals can affect every class from AA to M, I think. And that's not even considering what's coming from GM. These new cars can affect 95% of all the cars presently running in stock. i doubt if there will be a lot of the 4.6 Mustang built, but even so they will go down as far as I/SA and I/S.

Looking at the poll on this site for people who actually race about 87% of racers think they should either not be allowed in stock or be in their own class in stock. The question this weekend from everyone was " What can we do?". I think there are several things we can do, Whether or not they make any difference I don't know. I have chosen not to go to National events this year. I realize a lot of people won't take that path. I would encourage you to e-mail or write to NHRA, your division director, tech people sponsors or other racers and let them know how you feel. The muffler deal was put to bed by racers taking a stand and the fuel injected cars were finally put in their own classes because racers stood up and said enough.

If NHRA refuses to properly factor thes cars or put them in their own classes they should allow the older cars to run these motor combinations. That is not something I would favor unless they fail to do what's right. I wouldn't mind running against the Ford's and Chrysler's with an 850 carb, Victor manifold, ported fast burn heads, solid roller cam, 12 to 1 compression and roller rockers with a 285 hp rating. Oh wait a minute there is a class for that SS modified.

[Chris1529]

Do the Mustang engines (352 and 428) have a carb or EFI? It doesn't matter for this discussion, I was just wanting to know.

[X-TECH MAN]

Originally Posted by chris1529

do the mustang engines (352 and 428) have a carb or efi? It doesn't matter for this discussion, i was just wanting to know.

efi.

[X-TECH MAN]

The problem is not the fact that these new cars dont have a vin #'s or if they dont come with a rear assembly or have a blower, only 50 exist (so build a clone), etc. Can we say "PAPER CARS" and they are cool. I like the new cars (body styles and technology) and think its good for stock and S/S. The problem is the HP ratings. THAT is the concern of many racers of the old muscle cars and long time "gray beards" in this game. ALL of the engine combos need to be looked at, and RIGHT NOW.....NOT 5 or ten years from now, by a commitie of knowleable racers and engine builders, rated fairly and if the factor puts them at less than 7.5 lbs per HP then.....so be it. They become Super Stockers instead of a really heavy AA/S classed car. If they prove to be over rated somewhat after this is done then pull the HP factor back a little without waiting for the letter writing process requesting a reduction. Do NOT wait for the AHFS to do the job for you. It will never happen. Racers will play the game no matter what. Whats the big deal NHRA and IHRA? The AHFS is long over due to be scraped and eliminate this 1000 foot "dumping". Im sure there are many volenteers who would do this and it would not cost the associations one thin dime other than making a change in the class guide. I guess the higher ups think the racers cannot police themselves and be fair. My 2 1/2 cents.

[Bob Pagano]

Right on the mark Terry but they in charge are blind to put it mildly.

[GUMP]

What about all the other cars that are shutting off at 1000', how should they be factored?

[Chris "drooze" Wertman]

Wow.....I have to say a)I have an opinion on everything b)it very rarley coincides with yours c)being part of a DP car I have a different view at times d)really dont care where we end up as long as we end somewhere

That being said,

I actually can see a valid point and am not in total disagreement.

The FUNNY thing to me is I dont think most DP owners care as much as everyone else thinks we do. In many ways the CJ and DP cars are a "Cult" as it were an opportunity to be part of unique history, not an opportunity to be unfairly overcompetitive.

Speaking for Us me and the Old Man, if you made us SS tommorow, who cares, we dont, if you rate us at ? who cares. If someone tries to push us out of the game entirley then its on.

If youre saying ALL meaning ALL as in across the board and not just the CJ and DP cars I agree 100% I have found several that Ill bet have never been run and are monsters, scarce cars in most cases and that may be why, a few 4 cyl captive import RWD cars that could be sick. And things like the Cosworth Vega but hell parts are hard on those and the heads suck for reliablity. But if youre saying ALL cars/Combos....heck yeah. Go for it.

I ALSO think and this is a BIGGIE,

We need to Get all cars by Manufactuers in the last 20 years in the guides, ALL of them, Domestic that is. But I cannot believe how many cars arent in that are everywhere on the road and could be very very competitive.

Ive thought about how to form a "committe" outside the NHRA to approach the manufacturers and assist them in submitting them to the NHRA.

I am guessing there are a whole bunch of cars in especially the last 5 years that make a lot of other cars uncompetitive as well across every class there is.

What then ?

I think if you add putting all the newer cars in the guides when youre reviwing the older cars Terry youve got a winner.

Originally Posted by X-TECH MAN

The problem is not the fact that these new cars dont have a vin #'s or if they dont come with a rear assembly or have a blower, only 50 exist (so build a clone), etc. Can we say "PAPER CARS" and they are cool. I like the new cars (body styles and technology) and think its good for stock and S/S. The problem is the HP ratings. THAT is the concern of many racers of the old muscle cars and long time "gray beards" in this game. ALL of the engine combos need to be looked at, and RIGHT NOW.....NOT 5 or ten years from now, by a commitie of knowleable racers and engine builders, rated fairly and if the factor puts them at less than 7.5 lbs per HP then.....so be it. They become Super Stockers instead of a really heavy AA/S classed car. If they prove to be over rated somewhat after this is done then pull the HP factor back a little without waiting for the letter writing process requesting a reduction. Do NOT wait for the AHFS to do the job for you. It will never happen. Racers will play the game no matter what. Whats the big deal NHRA and IHRA? The AHFS is long over due to be scraped and eliminate this 1000 foot "dumping". Im sure there are many volenteers who would do this and it would not cost the associations one thin dime other than making a change in the class guide. I guess the higher ups think the racers cannot police themselves and be fair. My 2 1/2 cents.

[X-TECH MAN]

Originally Posted by GUMP

What about all the other cars that are shutting off at 1000', how should they be factored?

Simple.....use the 1/8 mile times and/or the 1000 ft times and adjust from those.....thats a no brainer. Problem is the stock and S/S "world" is relying on the AHFS and we all know thats not getting the job done. Its racer, weather, track altitude manipulated. The HP factors need a human, hands on input from a group (no more than 3) who are familiar and know class racing (stock and S/S) inside and out and who have no connection to a running combo. Some people who want to see better racing (no dumping and no "bracket mode" tune ups.) Some people who have no special desire to help or hinder a paticular brand of car or racer. Some people who can be firm yet FAIR and not show any favortism for the betterment of stock and S/S class racing. No.....I dont think I would want to do it (been there and done that with Top Stock) but I think I could with help from someone like Nitro Joe and his stats. It would take no more than 3 people so the factors and reductions could be done with a simple discussion and vote after reviewing the status of LEGAL cars after they have been certified. None of this AHFS crap like the E body Hemi guys had to endure a few years ago. The real problem is to get NHRA (and IHRA) to go for it. I doubt it would ever happen. My 25 cents worth.

[GUMP]

Originally Posted by X-TECH MAN

Simple.....use the 1/8 mile times and go from there.

So, why wouldn't you do the Challenger and Mustang the same way?

[X-TECH MAN]

Originally Posted by GUMP

So, why wouldn't you do the Challenger and Mustang the same way?

I would but I dont count......and NHRA wont. They rely on the AHFS......LOL.