Super Stock Production ??
 

What is the diffrence in SSP*A1 & SSP*A2 ????

Chris

Re: Super Stock Production ??
 

One 2 barrel carb and one 4 barrel carb.

Re: Super Stock Production ??
 

Chris,
To expand on Terry's post the SSPA-1 would be a 4 barrel carb, SSPA-2 is a two barrel carb. The classes with -2 designates a single 2 barrel carb, -1 designates one 4 barrel carb.

Re: Super Stock Production ??
 

Thank you guys, i looked all over the rule book this after noon looking for an explanation. I apperciate your knowledge as always.

Chris

Re: Super Stock Production ??
 

Chris,
You also have to maintain stock bore and stroke in production SS. You are allowed .015 on the stroke and .070 for overbore (it may have been increased to .075), that's the only difference between the internals of a production engine and a modified engine. Also, a two barrel combination is not allowed to have a vacuum pump. Hope that helps...feel free to give me a call if I can help.

Re: Super Stock Production ??
 

This is a perfect example of where IHRA could reduce some of their classes. Make this one classs only for four barrell. This is one of the problems I think racers have with IHRA, you can pretty much bring anything to the track and they have a class for it.

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I do believe that's what makes IHRA so popular is the fact that every one can get in somewhere. Unlike the NHRA where it's our way or the highway.

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No. Please read the rulebook.

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That explains the car counts at the two different HRA's. Every one is flocking to the IHRA because it is so popular.

I ran the IHRA when they were here but they pulled out so the option really is not there for me anymore.

Re: Super Stock Production ??
 

2 bls? Sounds like AHRA! That is just a class to crawl to so heads ups can be avoided.
A 2 barrel carb has no place on a modified class race car. How dumb!

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Ed I was thinking who runs a 2 barrel? Does anyone actually run one in Production?

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The production classes did orginate from the AHRA. IHRA has always has had the SS/Production classes.Ed, have you seen how fast we run with a 2bbl?

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There were only five 2bbl Production cars in the country last year, according to Nitro Joe's stats. This doesn't seem to be a gigantic problem.

Not a fan of the racer commitee deciding "who's got a real race car". Let's vote out 2bbl Production cars. Let's vote out 2bbl Stockers. Let's vote out FWD cars. If you want to have a meaningful discussion about how to combine classes in a reasonable fashion, that's fine, but an "off with their heads!" stance for cars that aren't red big block Camaros is not appropriate, in my opinion.

$.02,

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Believe me Ed....some are "Rocket Ships". They even use a restrictor plate like NASCAR uses to slow them down. Back in the day they had their own eliminator and S/S (as it used to be without the so called GT classes) was a seperate eliminator. Fewer and fewer cars are being built and showing up. Enjoy the NHRA enhancements.

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I went to DRC and this was the newest run I could find. It was in 2002. Damn good run.

31 9327 PDA-2 Scott Tilley, Durham NC, '65 Nova 9.893 10.80 -0.907

Re: Super Stock Production ??
 

Thanks, but I was no where close to being the fastes 2 bbl. Racers like Mark Young, Jim Reynolds, Noel Davis, etc., were a lot faster than I was. Like every other class in Stock, Super Stock, Comp, etc., it's all about what you can get out of your combination within the rules. Building a combination with the 2 bbl being your primary class is a challenge. Not a lot cam manufactures under a 2 bbl engine that turns 9500-10,000 rpm.

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And the 2bl cars aren't trying to be a big fish in a small pond, or avoid heads ups?
Seriously? And, yes, I would say the same about 2bl SS cars and FWD. Too many obsure classes.

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Mark Young is typically #1 qualifier. Homer Carty and his 2nd car that Brandon Peterson drove fall into the same class as Mark (so even if they "hide", they still have each other). Then you've got national record holder and former world champ Jim Reynolds, and one other guy I don't know.

Right. Let's get rid of fuel injected cars. Or carbureted cars. Or trucks. Or GT cars...

Re-read prior post.

I've got a headache.

Re: Super Stock Production ??
 

And?

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Tell that to Mark Young.

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He picked a 2bl, why? Didn't want to run the 4 bl cars heads up?

Re: Super Stock Production ??
 

Ed,

Mark has run the 2 barrell set up for a long time. He had-and I think still has-a beautiful '69 Mustang that he has run with the 2 barrell and I am pretty sure he ran it as a regular SS back in the 80's and 90's. I wish I could remember exactly what configuration he raced back then, but I doubt he is hiding from anyone. He has always been fast.
And,FWIW, when the '69 was painted candy apple red it was imo the best looking race car on the planet. Last time I saw it is was white. He always did HUGE wheelies with that car. I wish I had some pics of it back then.

Maybe Terry can shed some more light on this. I wonder if back in the day the 2 bbl Ford had a big carb for the application? Seems like that was why he built it but I can't recall. I was just a kid handing out ET slips and selling race gas at the track back then.

Re: Super Stock Production ??
 

2 Bbl set up this past year===
UNION, S.C. - Final order after 2 rounds of qualifying in Super Stock at the Summit Racing Equipment Pro-Am Tour, Raiders Division 9, event at Union County Dragway:

Psn--Num--Class-Driver, Home Town, Machine-----------------ET---Index---(+/-)

1 2210 GT/E Ronnie Courtney, Johnston SC, '05 Cavalier 6.197 7.00 -0.803
2 9428 PGA-2 Mark Young, Wake Forest NC, '93 Mustang 6.367 7.15 -0.783
3 903 PE-1 Wayne Allison, Jonesville SC, '64 Corvette 5.844 6.60 -0.756
4 3321 GT/HA Michael Volkman, Moon PA, '00 Sebring 6.555 7.30 -0.745
5 991 PBA-1 Cam Tingen, Henderson NC, '95 Achieva 5.773 6.50 -0.727
6 208 GT/K Jimmy Spell, Stedman NC, '90 Camaro 6.734 7.35 -0.616
7 2103 PE-1 Jerry Jennings, Landrum SC, '00 Grand Prix 6.097 6.60 -0.503
8 2909 SS/JA Mark Lewis, Inman SC, '94 Camaro 6.873 7.30 -0.427
9 954 PFA-1 Richard Alford, Raleigh NC, '63 Nova 6.402 6.80 -0.398
10 2104 PEA-1 Stephen Jennings, Landrum SC, '69 Camaro 6.304 6.70 -0.396
11 9806 PEA-2 Gil Carty Jr., Wytheville VA, '67 Nova 6.702 6.90 -0.198
12 988 PFA-2 Brandon Peterson, Randleman NC, '67 Nova 6.878 7.05 -0.172
13 2366 GT/DA Eddie Bolton, Mechanicsville MD, '84 Dayto 6.876 7.00 -0.124
14 946 PD-1 Steve Johnson, Spartanburg SC, '66 Nova 16.992 6.55 10.442
# 2 , 11 , and 12 all 2 bbl set ups

Re: Super Stock Production ??
 

He used to run the old car as a 428 SS/GA for years back in the day. Parts became hard to get and the Alum. heads had not become avaliable yet from Edelbrock so he started using a production style engine. He broke quite a lot of the rare 428 stuff as aftermarket valves and rods were not legal then like they are today. The production combos could use all of the good stuff from Ford and the aftermarket. All of the 2 barrel production cars were restricteded to a 500 cfm holley in the beginning. Some of the "Slick" carb companies found a way to make them flow much more (Mark Young was one of the first to use one) so IHRA just made them all run a restrictor plate after it was discovered and allowed the carb guys to do what ever they wanted to the 2 barrel holleys. If the restrictor plate measured OK it didnt matter anymore what they did to the carb. You can only shove so much wind thru 2 small holes that was checked for legality. Marks bad DQ was getting caught with a delay box many many years ago.....LOL. He was suspended for quite awhile in both NHRA and IHRA but has played the game straight ever since as far as I know. I think he learned his lesson the hard way.

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But why even have a 2 bl class? That is AHRA (Arkansas Hillbilly Racing Association) dumb. If anybody had 4 bls from running SS, why would they put a 2 bl carb on one?

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Its a shoot off of AHRA beginning in 1971. There were 3 classes in the beginning. Multi carbs (or factory FI), the single 4, and the 2 barrel. Partisapation fell off to next to nothing in the muliti carb classes and was dropped many years ago. Even most of the Hemi guys showed up running a 4 barrel on their Hemi Cudas, Darts, and Challengers. The other 2 classes stayed in the rule book over the years. At one time the 2 barrel class was going to be dropped but to many complained because some of the "OTHER" engines (and we had a lot of different combos back in the day) such as a 455 Olds, Pontiacs, AMC engines, Buick, etc. could be competitive as a 2 barrel eaiser than wth a 4 barrel due to the lack of good heads other than the factory iron parts. Not all modifed engines were big or small block chevys back in the day.

Re: Super Stock Production ??
 

Terry,

Thanks for the clarification. I am familiar with the 500CFM rule for 2 bbls in Production SS, but maybe you can recall better than I can-

I am thinking Mark ran the '69 as a GT car for a while in the late 1980's, maybe as a 302 2bbl or something. I could be wrong about that.

But something I do remember just like it happened 2 minutes ago. I was working at Coastal Plains Dragway and the NHRA had a divisional race there in '86 or '87.. I remember when Mark pulled into the water with the '69 the announcer saying he had a 2 bbl on the car. I also remember being a little disappointed that the probability of more huge wheelies by that car would be a thing of the past.
When he left the line on that run the wheels were up so high I coulda walked underneath the car and changed the oil ,lol.

Ed,
I don't know why the 2 bbls are classified in IHRA Prod SS. Maybe it was lobbied for in regards to parts breakage or something else. I will say this though, IHRA Production SS cars are totally cool! :)

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Hey Terry, if I remember correctly it was ss/p1 2-x4bbl
ss/p2 1-4bbl
ss/p3 2-2bbl
ss/4 was factory (nhra) SS
which back in the day was called formula ss.. I remember Dad running all of the classes , he a ran 427 in 68 coupe I remember those awesome looking braswell carbs sitting on top sheetmetal intakes ...pretty much the same looking intakes we run today in regular nhra SS

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P.S. One more thing about SS/Production classes. In the beginning you were NOT allowed to port and polish the heads. You were only allowed to bowl blend and match the intake port 1/2 inch kind of like your old S/M heads. When all of the different Alum stuff (Heads) came out and the past tech directors of old made the stuff legal it made almost anything other than a chevy or a Hemi obsolete for the classes. Now days you wont see anything other than the newer Ford stuff and Chevy and Hemi stuff in the classes. Modern tecnology like FI engines and the DP's and Blown Mustangs in stock and super stock today. I guess the 2 barrel class has just been allowed to survive for to long. We cant go back.

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You are correct but in the beginning the production S/S'ers (Formula stock) and regular super stocks were 2 seperate eliminators. This was around 71 when I first started with IHRA. SS/P1 could be 3X2's, 2 4's, or factory FI and formula SS was the correct name for the classes. The name of the class and what number depending on the carbs has been scrambled around several times since 71.

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Michael,
Mark didn't go with the small block combo until the mid 90's , he first tried it with auto then went with the awesome stick combo then switch back to autos cause he likes the big wheelies and they are more expensive with the stick and harder on parts .....and he can run almost as fast with the 4BBl as with the 2BBl but the 2BBl has softer index ...hey Mark I know you read these thought I would just clear some of it up

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I dont remember what he had at that time as I quit in the 80;s and didnt work again until 1990. He might have had a small block????

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Maybe Mark could correct me on anything I have wrong. here. I think Im pretty close on most of it???? Its been a long time ago.

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Dads first national event win was 1975 Hollywood Fla. SS/3B which was 427 Hi riser -- 2BBl stick ,best part of the story is he says that he won more money that weekend than he had in the whole car those days will never happen again

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Thats cool. I just read where Grumpy had $8000 in his 1968 Pro stocker in 1970 and won almost $30,000 with it in 3 weeks. Those days are HISTORY. Tell your dad hello for me if you will.....Thanks.

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Actually i lost first round of the World finals race this year due to a a heads up against Mark Young in a 2 barrell class..we arent running 2bl instead of 4bl to shy away from heads up runs infact if that was the case im sure Homer would have put a 4bl on his car years ago because he couldnt run with Mark...a SS/Production car won D 9 in super stock this year and another was runner up in super stock this year and i believe Mark was 5th this year so you got 3 out of the top 5 in Div 9 are 2 bl cars...are you saying if IHRA removes the 2bl production class you would run IHRA and so would everyone else that doesnt even bother to run a race with us...i didnt think so everyone can come on here and type IHRA needs to do this to be better or do that and we will come....who gives a rip about the 2bl production class or the 4 bl production class i think people need to quit making excuses for reasons why IHRA is not getting the car count...its not the number of classes its the pride that it would take someone to admitt that maybe just maybe they are a good association to run with and have a good program but its like that ole joke blablabla is like riding a mo ped its fun untill your friends catch you right!!!

I personally think it is horse crap that there are people who think classes we run should be deleted by IHRA yes I run a production 2bl car and i won D9 in it this year i wouldnt trade that for nothing and yes i have a god aweful crate motor stocker also its the decay of IHRA stock get over it guys IHRA gave the working class man a place to race and have fun on a budget and thats what we do have fun and race.....im with Beard maybe we should just start saying lets get rid of this because i dont like it or understand it...i bet the guy that invented the cell phone took the same kind of crap i read on here sometimes but look at those bad boys now i can complain on here all day with my cell phone via internet wow...

thats my .01

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Yes this is basically the AHRA Formula Stock class , except AHRA had three "formulas".

1. Multiple Carbs
2. Four Barrel
3. Two Barrel

Tulsa racer Roy Kempe won the AHRA world championship way back when with a Formula 3 small block Duster, "Dusteruction"

Bill

Re: Super Stock Production ??
 

Has anyone looked at those 2-barrel carbs these guys run? They are the 500cfm Holley that are scienced-out to the nth degree to flow almost as well as a mediocre, out-of-the-box,4bbl. Additionally, they have tricked-out sheet-metal intakes, with angle-milled big valve heads and over-balanced cranks, and super lightweight rotating assemblies(hence, 9500 launch w/10,000 rpm trap zingers). I think most of them just like the challenge of being different and the sound of a smallblock (Ford or Chevy) going down the track. Have you ever heard Joe B's wild Chevy injected V6 in his Mustang scream on top end? Gotta love it.

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I know Roy. Raced that little Duster many times at Tulsa. He and Diane are great people. Good little driver.

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Back in the 80's my brother David Jackson held the IHRA SS/2JA record for many years with a 1958 Chevy Wagon. The car was a 283 (292ci) with a 650 holley 2bbl. The carb had been reworked by TRC (I think out of Ga). The carb would flow 730 or 780 and was as quick on the 283 as a 4bbl and would turn 10.500rpm with no problem. They were not required to run any type of restrictor plate and the hot tip was a 2bbl adapter made by Braswell that was several inches tall and matched to the Holley strip dominator intake. They also made small velocity stacks for the 2bbl. The index was pretty soft on the combo and David would always qualify well if not #1. The carb was legal and was checked many times by Robert Leonard when he was the tech man. IHRA had a plexiglas guage that Robert used to check the venturi size. The 650 holley did not have any boosters in the venturi and had discharge holes drilled arount the top of the venturis, it also had a 50cc accelerator pump. It looked like a garden sprinkler when you would work the throttle linkage by hand lol. Don Jackson