Vegas SS Qualifying - WOW!
 

Must be some pretty good air up there! That or everybody wants to be the last 1.200 or better under cars in the history books! Top 20 are -1.200 under. In fact, if NHRA absorbs SS into GT, some of these may go down as the fastest EVER :D !
Check out the GT/DA spread. Except for John Hennesey @ 9.89, the other 4 are only a few thousands apart @ 9.93 to 9.94. They are running SS class, right?

1 2093 GT/MA Bob Dennis, Shorter AL, '91 Calais 10.867 12.35 -1.483
2 7056 GT/AA Frank Grossi, Upland CA, '05 Sunfire 9.316 10.66 -1.344
3 6 SS/CS David Bogner, Kearney NE, '92 Daytona 9.598 10.92 -1.322
4 7026 GT/BA Dan Mason, San Clemente CA, '85 Camaro 9.501 10.81 -1.309
5 624 GT/FA Don Little, Westley CA, '70 Challenger 10.074 11.38 -1.306
6 723 GT/AA Carmeron Kallas, Bluffdale UT, '04 Cavalier 9.366 10.66 -1.294
7 5080 GT/HA Ted Romero, Denver CO, '98 Grand Am 10.349 11.63 -1.281
8 7474 SS/BS Justin Lamb, Henderson NV, '07 Cobalt 9.021 10.30 -1.279
9 78 SS/FA Darren Smith, Palmdale CA, '68 Dart 9.750 11.02 -1.270
10 5206 SS/MA Carroll Warling, Brighton CO, '74 Grand Am 11.183 12.45 -1.267
11 7375 GT/IA Ken Etter, Riverside CA, '93 Shadow 10.530 11.79 -1.260
12 7980 SS/FA Steve Wann, Modesto CA, '69 Barracuda 9.760 11.02 -1.260
13 79 SS/BS Mike Blackstone, Livermore CA, '90 Calais 9.052 10.30 -1.248
14 5441 SS/HA Gary McGlasson, Los Lunas NM, '69 Camaro 9.933 11.17 -1.237
15 6413 SS/AA Jon Percy, Pocatello ID, '64 Savoy 9.016 10.25 -1.234
16 5427 SS/EA James Weakland, Morrison CO, '68 Camaro 9.689 10.92 -1.231
17 765 SS/L Kip Martin, Phoenix AZ, '64 Mustang 10.616 11.84 -1.224
18 657 SS/CM Steve Polack, Enumclaw WA, '92 Camaro 8.978 10.20 -1.222
19 718 SS/FA Chuck Stubeck, Chatsworth CA, '69 Roadrunn 9.805 11.02 -1.215
20 721 SS/AH Rick Houser, Pasadena CA, '68 Barracuda 8.832 10.04 -1.208
21 75 GT/HA Wayne Taylor, Chino CA, '00 Sebring 10.432 11.63 -1.198
22 668 SS/GA Mike Pruss, Red Deer AB, '02 Firebird 9.928 11.12 -1.192
23 6565 SS/BM Terry Sherrill, Klamath Falls OR, '04 Cava 8.761 9.94 -1.179
24 715 GT/DA John Hennessay, Los Angeles CA, '86 Camaro 9.892 11.07 -1.178
25 5 GT/BA Tony DeFrank, Chatsworth CA, '07 Cobalt 9.634 10.81 -1.176
26 7568 SS/FA Bryan Broaddus, Yorba Linda CA, '71 Monte 9.845 11.02 -1.175
27 709 GT/AA Doug Broaddus, Anaheim Hills CA, '97 Fireb 9.485 10.66 -1.175
28 6777 SS/BS Rick Paton, Edmonton AB, '02 Camaro 9.125 10.30 -1.175
29 7724 SS/L Mark Tallent, Palmdale CA, '64 Mustang 10.671 11.84 -1.169
30 799J SS/AH John Rains, Santa Paula CA, '68 Dart 8.880 10.04 -1.160
31 4403 SS/JA Gary Emmons, Friendswood TX, '96 Firebird 10.421 11.58 -1.159
32 2900 SS/BM Mike Tueffel, Browns Summit NC, '98 Grand 8.784 9.94 -1.156
33 7607 SS/FA Jack Bystrom, Cucamonga CA, '68 Camaro 9.870 11.02 -1.150
34 6846 GT/AA Byron Setters, Red Deer AB, '04 Cavalier 9.513 10.66 -1.147
35 7702 GT/FA Mike Graham, Tempe AZ, '00 Cobra 10.235 11.38 -1.145
36 3388 GT/GA Mark Nowicki, Gaylord MI, '98 Avenger 10.342 11.48 -1.138
37 6898 GT/DA Casey Setters, Red Deer AB, '02 Firebird 9.932 11.07 -1.138
38 6340 GT/FA Jim Storms, Renton WA, '98 Avenger 10.243 11.38 -1.137
39 755 GT/DA Kevin Smith, Placentia CA, '87 Camaro 9.933 11.07 -1.137
40 4563 GT/KA Vic Penrod, Walters OK, '95 Achieva 10.908 12.04 -1.132
41 6820 GT/CA Caitlin Setters, Red Deer AB, '96 Camaro 9.839 10.97 -1.131
42 7701 GT/DA Don Kennedy, Mesa AZ, '92 Trans Am 9.940 11.07 -1.130
43 2 GT/DA Michael Iacono, Wading River NY, '87 Camaro 9.945 11.07 -1.125
44 7350 GT/BA Bob Bales, Chino CA, '98 Grand Am 9.687 10.81 -1.123
45 670 GT/CA Alan Falcone, Normandy Park WA, '91 Calais 9.853 10.97 -1.117
46 5200 SS/EM Abe Loewen, Regina SK, '98 Grand Am 9.500 10.61 -1.110
47 1638 GT/EA Ron Morehead, Newburgh NY, '82 Camaro 10.134 11.22 -1.086
48 797 GT/AA Joe Kohorst, Grand Terrace CA, '92 Camaro 9.575 10.66 -1.085
49 6000 GT/BA Norm Lapointe, Edmonton AB, '07 Cobalt 9.732 10.81 -1.078
50 7411 SS/CM Gary Tackett, Corona CA, '64 Nova 9.122 10.20 -1.078
51 6015 GT/TA Tom Nolan, Lacombe AB, '04 S-10 10.051 11.12 -1.069
52 5300 SS/IA Al Corda, Elk Mound WI, '02 Firebird 10.203 11.27 -1.067
53 64 GT/DA Don Thomas, Spruce Grove AB, '04 Grand Am 10.005 11.07 -1.065
54 7800 GT/CA Bob Fordyce, Vista CA, '91 Calais 9.906 10.97 -1.064
55 7582 SS/AA Juan Mendoza, Garden Grove CA, '69 Corvette 9.201 10.25 -1.049
56 6425 GT/CA Art Congdon, Calgary AB, '91 Calais 9.932 10.97 -1.038
57 7391 GT/TA John Winslow, Prunedale CA, '97 Dakota 10.086 11.12 -1.034
58 751 SS/KA Joe Schweigert, Ontario CA, '85 Camaro 10.810 11.84 -1.030
59 720 SS/AH Dave Raybourn, Modesto CA, '68 Barracuda 9.012 10.04 -1.028
60 7210 SS/DM Tom Albritton, West Jordan UT, '90 Trans Am 9.279 10.30 -1.021
61 667 SS/BS John Bouchard, Stony Plain BC, '92 Firebird 9.286 10.30 -1.014
62 7668 SS/TB Brad Rounds, Reno NV, '01 S-10 9.499 10.51 -1.011
63 737 GT/TC Shane Studley, Bellflower CA, '99 Dakota 10.671 11.68 -1.009
64 744 GT/BA Mike Hennessay, Hermosa Beach CA, '91 Olds 9.808 10.81 -1.002
65 7550 SS/NA Gary Williams, Mariposa CA, '64 Comet 11.772 12.76 -0.988
66 6153 SS/PA Rick Pike, Langley BC, '56 Chevy 12.285 13.27 -0.985
67 53 GT/LA Dennis Nelson, Hugo MN, '80 Malibu 11.168 12.15 -0.982
68 602 SS/J Rob Youngblood, Nampa ID, '76 Corvette 10.403 11.38 -0.977
69 7228 SS/IA Bill Blakeney, Bell CA, '68 Camaro 10.317 11.27 -0.953
70 7629 SS/AH Joe Faherty, Apple Valley CA, '68 Dart 9.111 10.04 -0.929
71 7854 SS/AM Ryan McClanahan, Alta Loma CA, '07 Cobalt 8.605 9.53 -0.925
72 10 SS/G John Calvert, Lancaster CA, '68 Mustang 10.105 11.02 -0.915
73 7427 SS/DA Larry Rush, Vernal UT, '69 Camaro 9.855 10.76 -0.905
74 3473 SS/CM Craig Marshall, Columbus OH, '98 Grand Am 9.295 10.20 -0.905
75 788 SS/FA Keri Angeles, Fountain Valley CA, '69 Fire 10.120 11.02 -0.900
76 618 SS/CM Dino Kost, Auburn WA, '91 Calais 9.314 10.20 -0.886
77 767 SS/JA Tim Hall, Fountain Valley CA, '73 Dart 10.699 11.58 -0.881
78 3821 GT/JA Lisa Buckingham, Mansfield OH, '00 Firebird11.026 11.89 -0.864
79 6676 SS/DA Jackie Alley, Eagle ID, '69 Camaro 9.897 10.76 -0.863
80 1633 SS/EM Lincoln Morehead, Marlboro NY, '02 Cavalier 9.750 10.61 -0.860
81 6549 SS/H Terry Anderson, Meridian ID, '67 Nova 10.231 11.07 -0.839
82 5726 GT/FA Jeff Johnson, Aurora CO, '84 Cougar 10.547 11.38 -0.833
83 7797 SS/LA Don Keen, Palmdale CA, '65 Mustang 11.233 12.04 -0.807
84 7873 SS/LA Dennis Paz, Stockton CA, '57 Chevy 11.276 12.04 -0.764
85 799 SS/CS Wes King, Stockton CA, '67 Chevy II 10.183 10.92 -0.737
86 7451 GT/EA Glenn Snow, St. George UT, '85 Trans Am 10.491 11.22 -0.729
87 7031 SS/JA Greg Luneack, Vista CA, '65 Nova Wgn 10.861 11.58 -0.719
88 6842 SS/CS Dan Cyr, Surprise AZ, '67 Chevy II 10.209 10.92 -0.711
89 1781 SS/AS Dan Fletcher, Churchville NY, '69 Camaro 9.450 10.15 -0.700
90 7390 SS/JA John Winslow, San Jose CA, '65 Coronet 10.919 11.58 -0.661
91 7 GT/JA Jody Lang, Puyallup WA, '81 Malibu 11.260 11.89 -0.630
92 61 GT/IA Mark Faul, Tacoma WA, '98 Grand Am 11.227 11.79 -0.563
93 600D GT/L Scott Downard, Boise ID, '55 Chevy 11.397 11.89 -0.493
94 68 SS/BM Brad Plourd, Maple Valley WA, '91 Calais 9.464 9.94 -0.476
95 7348 SS/KA Thomas Ely, Las Vegas NV, '74 Duster 11.376 11.84 -0.464
96 8 SS/AM Scott Stillings, Bradenton FL, '99 Grand Am 9.153 9.53 -0.377
97 B757 GT/IA Michael Billich, Henderson NV, '98 Chevy 11.454 11.79 -0.336
98 213A SS/BM Anthony Bertozzi, Ashland VA, '98 Grand Am 9.702 9.94 -0.238
99 4911 SS/JA Gary Hansen, El Paso TX, '68 Dart 11.936 11.58 0.356

Re: Vegas SS Qualifying - WOW!
 

It just shows how well nhra knows how to factor! Either the alt. factor is worng, or the horsepower is wrong! But I know one thing that is wrong, You can set a record at vegas divisional, But NO HORSE POWER!

Re: Vegas SS Qualifying - WOW!
 

Just as sea level tracks have more than favorable wether, so do altitude tracks. It's a fact of life!

Re: Vegas SS Qualifying - WOW!
 

Stockracer I agree. Why is it so obvious but nothing has been done about it? Maybe something will change for '08.

Re: Vegas SS Qualifying - WOW!
 

The fact that the same car can go 1.10 under at sea level, travel to Vegas, run slower but qualify 1.30 under, doesn't make sense.

Re: Vegas SS Qualifying - WOW!
 

Why Do No One Bitch When The Air Is Good At Atco? I think it's stupid to give horsepower for good conditions,dont you all?the thing is they know they dont get horsepower at vegas and can let it all hang out..they wont do that att sealevel....AHFS!!!!!!

Re: Vegas SS Qualifying - WOW!
 

Nobody b!tches when the air is good at Atco because they are busy crying cause they have HP coming their way.

I'll b!tch about good air at Atco, Englishtown and Gainesville as we have gotten HP added because of runs that were -1.18. And we have never won a round of class at Indy.

If factors are good enough for records, they should be good enough for AHFS. If not, FIX'M!!

Happy now?

Re: Vegas SS Qualifying - WOW!
 

Amen Isaac! You just can't argue with common sense.

Re: Vegas SS Qualifying - WOW!
 

I'll bet what you are seeing is the real potential in a lot of these cars. In other words, less sandbagging. Like I said, some of these runs are for the history books as indexes are dropping and if GT absorbs SS class cars next year then this may be the last days of SS designated cars.
Really guys, they've had altitude corrected tracks for 30+ years. The factors were in place before 99% of you started racing. Can you get over it?
Now congratulations for all of the racers that aren't SAND-BAGGIN' IT AND RUNNING SO STRONG!!!

Re: Vegas SS Qualifying - WOW!
 

Jeff,

You are still missing the point !!! No- HP, no-records and no-factors.. Why should one part of the country be handicapped and the other isn't.. You do know when it's below sea-level we still get FACTORED,when your weather is good you get records and no-HP !!! What a bunch of BS..
How can this happen and why isn't changed ???? Jeff, hope you are doing well and why aren't you their flying................ Dave...1033/stock(350ci)

Re: Vegas SS Qualifying - WOW!
 

And that is the problem Jeff, the factors are over 30 years old

Re: Vegas SS Qualifying - WOW!
 

If they used the conversion factor back to Sea Level that is listed on the correction page the runs could be used. After reading the AHFS on the NHRA website, it really makes no mention of altitude tracks being excluded for the system. Although I do know that they are. Is this because it takes extra work to convert the numbers? Huummmmmmmmm

Re: Vegas SS Qualifying - WOW!
 

What factors? The altitude factors? Ask any pilot why they haven't changed. It's a constant. In fact, the altitude correction factors once applied to all tracks above 1250'. Then about the time the racers discovered the internet and started raisin' a hissy, it was raised to 1450'+ tracks. That move actually helped guys like me in Arizona (2 tracks lost their altitude "status") with fast cars because it "slowed" us down in respect to amounts below the index.

You guys always seem to forget the AHFS also allows (1) run per each half of the racing season allowable for "extreme" conditions, or words to that effect. Maybe each and every one of these steller runs in Vegas are their "extreme" condition numbers. That policy also works on the below sea level tracks.

Also, runs at corrected tracks are subject to HP adjustments. I'll let somebody else jump in with the math on that.

More than one of those that have traveled the country from high points to low points have told me the factors work. I choose to believe them. I've run downhill racing from Denver, Utah, Vegas, Arizona to California. Everything I've seen tells me the corection factors are reasonably accurate. If you don't want to accept it, prove it.

Lastly on this subject, I am all for "all count" runs towards the AHFS but keeping the same grace 2x per year on exceptional wether.

Dave, car's in the shop getting improvements here and there. Should be ready for next season.

Re: Vegas SS Qualifying - WOW!
 

Heres an example grossi ran 9.28 at indy he is there and ran a 9.31 He most likley had the welding gloves on with the dry ice hanging off the manifold like at indy so if the factor is right why didnt he go 9.40 or 9.50 if its so bad at vegas ????????????????

Re: Vegas SS Qualifying - WOW!
 

I just got home from a less than perfect weekend in Las Vegas.

Here is my opinion why everybody runs hard in Las Vegas.

The starting line in Las Vegas is one of the best we run on out here on the West Coast.
When the air is up to 3500 plus feet of Density Altitude you can really lean on the car and make it run faster relative to the corrected index than you can at sea level. You can absolutly hammer the car on the starting line and hook it up. The altitude allows you to mask chassis limitations since you don't make as much power.

I don't think Frank Grossi's car was working well at Indy. He had a new engine combination and they had not had a chance to sort it out. He is getting a handle on it now but I think there is more left yet. And if you watch he almost always has ice on it for the qualifying runs.

As far as the factoring goes? Who cares? It is an imperfect system run by imperfect people. It can never make everyone happy so either accept it or run a class where you are not subjected to it. Seems easy to me!

Re: Vegas SS Qualifying - WOW!
 

The adjustment down to sea level is the problem. How many tracks are at sea level.( Houston and No Problem are good low tracks but still a little above sea level) The tracks should IMO be set at an average track level, let's say 600 feet. By the way, what is the air in Vegas and what is the track's altitude.

Greg

Re: Vegas SS Qualifying - WOW!
 

actual track altitude at vegas is 2200-same as the deceased LACR in Palmdale-but-my street driven 4000 lb Buick ran a best at LACR one cold march night of 13.59-usually on a warm day there it was 13.80s on drag radials, spinning in low gear. I ran 13.35-13.45 at Vegas in the heat with the same car, driven to both tracks on drag radials-underscoring the above point-the starting line for a weekend bracket race at vegas was soooooo much better than most other places, it made my lazy street car look fast (er). Only place I ever ran this car that was better was Norwalk. I don actually understand how the altitude adjustment works via the NHRA adjustment. Jeff Lee, a shame you're not there this weekend-I follow your posts here to try and keep up with whats going on-love your car.

Re: Vegas SS Qualifying - WOW!
 

Good post Bryan! Hope it sinks in to the doubters and puts some of these issues to rest. Doubtful though...:(

Take a look at the race car pictures on Drag Race Central. You'll see a lot of wheels up action shots that would typically defy that you are racing at 3500+/- density altitude. I looked at the Vegas weather and noticed not only was the Density altitude corrected to around 3500' but the humidity was in the teens. Never raced on the east coast but would suspect if the density corrects to the same 3500' range then the humidity would be 3x to 4x what Vegas saw this weekend.

I've raced numerous times in Vegas in Stock but have not been there in SS yet. The track has NEVER let me down. Heck, I've never heard of anybody having a traction issue in Vegas. For the reasons cited by Bryan I suspect my ET's will be more favorable in terms of comparing to the index especially as I run a 9" slick in SS.
I noticed my friend Don Kennedy in GT/DA was within a few hundreths of his best ever ET's in Vegas this weekend, good for -1.13 under. Now I know he's been making some chassis adjustments but maybe as Bryan says, that SD455 get's tamed just the right amount with that altitude in conjunction with being on a superb track. I'll bet there's not a torquier engine in all of SS than that SD455!

So bottom line, it's more than just the factor that produces these quick ET's.

Stage1, thanks for the compliment. As I noted earlier, AMX is getting some improvements. New Advanced Clutches dual disk clutch, motor plates, ladder bars (still with 9" slicks), coil-overs, floor pans, oil pan, headers, FAST O2 sensors, and a bunch of nick-nacks. The shop I'm using is not known for fast delivery...

Re: Vegas SS Qualifying - WOW!
 

I race my street legal pump gas 4000 lb pickup at Fontana mostly. The best at Fontana is 10.99 @ 119 with a 1.59 60'. At the ET Finals in Vegas it went 11.02 @ 120.54 with a 1.51 60'. Vegas has to be the most awesome track in the country, regardless of the altitude. The only problem is the wind. It keeps changing directions in the afternoon.

Re: Vegas SS Qualifying - WOW!
 

According to Micheal Iacono his Mustang and Camaro are running about the same as they have all year,Altitude or NOT..Also most of the cars in stock I have seen run this year in person seem to be running about the same,,Altitude adjustment is saving alot of HP..

Re: Vegas SS Qualifying - WOW!
 

I was just thinking. (that gets me in trouble sometimes) but the Pro Stock slow up approx. .17 right. I help Craig Bourgeois on his A/ND comp car and we slow up approx. .16 . But both cars slip thru the wind better than most. The thin air might have more to do with it then we think. The factor NHRA uses is .9830 to convert to sea level and the slower you go the more it effects th ET but you put Marv's wagon out there and it is cutting the air with ease? Maybe ?

Greg

p.s. I know my golf ball goes farther in Vegas than New Orleans.(but my money doesn't)

Re: Vegas SS Qualifying - WOW!
 

Hey Guys,

The simple solution is every-run counts no-matter what track,then at least it levels the playing field alittle.. See right now you guys can go as fast as you want with no-HP and set records at factored tracks with no-HP ... Doesn't sound right , yah I know we have fast sea-level tracks and we can get HP....I do think counting everyrun would help..... Good Luck to you guys at the World Finals, hope you have great weather............ Dave...1033/stock

Re: Vegas SS Qualifying - WOW!
 

Bryan...you hit the nail on the head, you are ABSOLUTLY CORRECT...much of what you lose at Vegas altitude, is made up because how well the smooth Vegas track works...Vegas has the best surface in NHRA

Re: Vegas SS Qualifying - WOW!
 

And one more thing. The track is good all the way down. Case in point. During my last run my car would not shift into high gear. It went to the rev limiter in second at 8500 RPM. I backed out of it and was stirring the shifter to get it into the nice clean nuetral position afforded by the latest technology in automatics. Well I was not able to get it into neutral, but I did manage to knock it into first gear. I don't know where the RPM topped out (the tach only goes to 10,000) but I can tell you it never thought about skidding the tires. It just spun my little old 454 up to the moon. At most tracks this could have resulted in a tire smoking wild ride. Not Las Vegas!
It was running when I turned it off but not well and without oil pressure, oups! Turns out the nut on the shift arm was not tighned and it backed off. I sure wish it had just fallen off.

Re: Vegas SS Qualifying - WOW!
 

I guess I made a mistake by using grossi as a comparison as he only ran a 9.28 at indy and he didnt have all of his stuff sorted out!!!!! Lets use John Shaul as an example he went10.26 at indy and a 10.24 at vegas maybe John doesnt have this combo sorted out either. MAYBE ITS THE STARTING LINE???????????????????????????????

Re: Vegas SS Qualifying - WOW!
 

Let's have you get analytical instead of being subjective. Go back and read the posts by Bryan and I; weather and track conditions. Then go pull the weather from Indy (temerature, humidity, barometric pressure and corrected density altitude), say the best weather during qualifying. Then compare it to the best weather in Vegas for qualifying.Then think about the obstacles of a high humidity day of racing compared to a low humidity day of racing. Track conditions, tuning differences and how they relate to track conditions, etc. I think if you really look at the numbers, it might make sense.

Then, after you've analyzed all the data and see how good Vegas is in November racing, go re-evaluate the data and compare it to July. Then see how great it is in Vegas because the altitude factor knows no season, it's a 12 month constant. Better yet, look at the Mopar Nat's in Denver in July. When it's 105 degrees on the starting line and your 3500' or so closer to the sun, you'll really love racing!

Re: Vegas SS Qualifying - WOW!
 

Exactly Jeff. Vegas at this time of year was .06 better than Bristol. Jason Line was #1 @ 6.78 I believe.That number would have been good for #16 @ Vegas. Both good tracks.

Greg

Re: Vegas SS Qualifying - WOW!
 

I guess were running pro stock now

Re: Vegas SS Qualifying - WOW!
 

I agree with dean keep the tracks factored and go to afhs across the board lets see how many sandbaggers there are then??????????

Re: Vegas SS Qualifying - WOW!
 

Iam sorry I mean Dave

Re: Vegas SS Qualifying - WOW!
 

jeff I did a little searching and the DA was 2000 feet better in indy than it was in vegas but shaul went the same at both tracks so what you are saying is shaul could have went an 04 at indy. Maybe he was sandbagging in the final for class at a 128 mph??????

Re: Vegas SS Qualifying - WOW!
 

Big Road, I mention Pro Stock because they always have their fresh new piece in where as a super stocker would have the same engine either two months older or just freshened. It's easier to compare apples to apples.

Greg

Re: Vegas SS Qualifying - WOW!
 

Big,

Some combinations are better at altitude than they are at sea level. You just can't take numbers from one track and apply them to another without more information. Pure speculation unless you have intimate information on the cars you are using as examples!

Re: Vegas SS Qualifying - WOW!
 

The issue that concerns me more than the factor, is the HP issue. Why cars at altitude can not receive HP penalties. In 2002 at Denver, Gary Gokey drove his A/FS to a -1.562 at Denver, and received nothing (and has been further under than that in the past). Had I made a run at the Dutch Classic in '04 that fast in the Turbo 'Bird, I would have received a five HP hit. Instead, I had to run heavy and slow the car down, while he has free reign to go as fast as he wants with no repercussion. Just doesn't seem fair?

Re: Vegas SS Qualifying - WOW!
 

Vehicles can, and do, receive HP at altitude tracks. Again, you receive 1x freebie per each half of the race season. Don't know if that applied there or not. However, you should really be asking "why do turbo cars receive the same factors at altitude as non-turbo cars?" since the turbo introduces atmosphere into the equation. That doesn't seem fair, does it?

Re: Vegas SS Qualifying - WOW!
 

Jeff,

Name ONE racer that has received HP based on a run from an Alt. track? They can run -1.50+ which would still be more than -1.15 under the sea level index and still does not even get a look at. They don't even raise the one flag.

You don't get one freebie per half. We ran -1.18 ONCE at a Nat'l and got HP with a 73 Buick 350 Apollo. An earlier pre-smog 350 in a Skylark also went more than -1.15 at the same event was apparently enough to make a "Family" change. And the 71 version of this 350 is allowed a 800cfm quad and we aren't.. Where's the equality in that??

Also in the first half a 72 Camaro and a 78 Corvette each made a hit to make a family change. I wonder if the 78 is now allowed to use heads and intake from a 72 now?? I doubt it. Maybe the Camaro can mold a 78 Vette nose onto the front?????? I would love to use a 72 or older Buick 350 intake instead of the smog infested, spagetti tangled, 70 pound intake we currently use. And I would like to have the header room a Skylark has also. Let's get Bruce Noland started on this...... These "Family" hits are BS!!!

While I'm on a rant......
Why are Competition Eliminator CIC permenant hits now in use at alt. track and not AHFS???

I'd go have a drink, but I don't drink anything stronger than pop.......

but wait, pop used to drink anything!!!!


Until there's a better system............................................ ..

Safe Trips All!

Re: Vegas SS Qualifying - WOW!
 

Right On Isaac, and what about some of the records set at altitude tracks, they wouldn't run those numbers at a sea level track.Yet when some records are set at a factored track it comes out to 1.40 under the sea level index and still no HP is given

Re: Vegas SS Qualifying - WOW!
 

Isaac,

I'll not only name ONE, but TWO. One in Stock & one in SS. The Stocker was Neil Smedley, 2001, Vegas. The Superstocker was US with Kandra Weber driving, also at the 2001 Vegas Race.

But here's the catch. We can CHEAT the factor at Denver by changing the car to make it LEAVE, which changes the whole picture with regard to the factor. For instance. Kandra's Olds would run 1.15 under at Denver with the changes made for altitude. She just had the car back up there a month ago or so with just the sea level set-up in it and it went .80 under.

So at least from what I know about lower HP cars, you can make lots of changes to enhance altitude performance. Also, STICK cars can easily pick up 3 tenths by making changes at altitude to make them leave.

That being said, I would favor taking about 15 - 20 % off of everyones altitude factor. The reason is, the FAA when they adopted these factors, knew that pilots didn't have the option of making changes to their planes to let them get off of the ground faster. We do. Because of the options we have, the factors are currently a lilttle soft.

Jerry

Re: Vegas SS Qualifying - WOW!
 

OK, I'll have to rephrase my statement...

How about since AHFS came into play? Where it had at one time stated that NO Alt. adjusted tracks count towards AHFS. Ask Nitro Joe!

I have to thank Capt'n Jack on helping me remember the letters AHFS. (Automatic Help For Slugs)

Safe Trips All!

Re: Vegas SS Qualifying - WOW!
 

Isaac, The AHFS was in place then. Afterwards, the "not at altitude" clause was added.
Guess what ? The rule correction was not made retroactive. No surprise there.