What should the role of a sanctioning body be?

Greg Hill · 03-30-2010, 05:30 PM

NHRA is a 501-c6 non profit organization? According to IRS regulations 501- c6 organizations are membership based and are restricted to trade groups. An example would be SEMA whose members are the manufacturers whose interests SEMA represents. Now if NHRA is a membership based organization whose interests are they representing? I would say that they should represent all of our interests. Bracket racers, track owners, professional racers and sportsman racers.

For the purposes of this thread I will focus on sportsman racers specifically stock and super stock racers. I think the first thing and most important a sanctioning body should do is provide a safe place for us to race. A safe race track with adequate safety people in case of mishaps. The next most important thing in my book is having rules that are fair and equitable and are evenly enforced. To provide a level playing field is extremely important. I realize that in all instances that outcome may not happen but they should strive to make it happen. How can a sanctioning body have any credibility with it's members when they consciously choose not to do that? I've been racing for quite a few years and in all my years I have never seen anything to approach the level of disrespect toward stock and super stock racers that NHRA has shown with the placement in stock of the new Challenger and Mustang.

Why would they choose to do that? The rule change to allow them to compete in stock went against everything stock eliminator has meant for more than 40 years. The reason is hard to fathom. Nobody would have complained if they had put them in their own class even if it was in stock eliminator. The idea that NHRA would put them in regular stock classes with horsepower ratings from 50 to 100 hp soft is discouraging at best. This is changing the game to benefit a small group and crapping on people who have supported them for years. Again I ask the question why? Who does it benefit? Is there money involved ? If so where is the money going and to whom?

This whole deal could have been handled in a way to benefit stock and super stock. Put them in separate classes for stock and make the hp factors right for stock and super stock. In my opinion this would have been a win win for everyone. Again why not? Do they [NHRA] want to run off all the rest of stock and super stock? These are questions I'm not sure of but I am sure of one thing. NHRA has not done this because they didn't know what they were doing. They knew exactly what they were doing and how it would affect all of us .

Floyd Gomez · 03-30-2010, 06:35 PM

Greg,
Of course there is money changing hands and it is obvious from who. Mopar and Ford are heavy sponsors in the Pro ranks. They both sponsor National Events and have a ton of give away crap at each race. I have NO PROBLEM with the new cars. I do agree that they should be in a class that is even matched just like the FI cars were. When Wally retired then later passed, sportsman racing changed for ever. NHRA is no longer worried about us. They only tolerate us because of the money we do bring in as racers and crew. You never hear an announcer mention sportsman on TV unless it is TAD or TAFC. The coverage on pro stock is even beginning to dwindle to give Force and others interview time. NHRA will say it is what the fans want to see but how can you want to see something that you are never shown. At national events as soon as the pro's run, Frey and others imediately tell fans to make it out to the Pro pits to get autographs and to check out the midway for food and souvenirs. Very rarely do you here them say "Fans stick around to watch the amazing wheel standing Stockers and Super Stockers coming to the line". So of course when Mopar and Ford want to sell more cars they invent a car that is no way ever going to be street legal, go to NHRA and say hey, we give you all this money let us run these cars in Stock so we can sell more cars the the public. WE know they can't afford the same cars that are on the track but the public thinks these cars are stock "wink wink" and it will cause them to buy our production cars. Who cares if others get hurt we just need to sell more stuff.

art leong · 03-30-2010, 06:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Floyd Gomez

Greg,
Of course there is money changing hands and it is obvious from who. Mopar and Ford are heavy sponsors in the Pro ranks. They both sponsor National Events and have a ton of give away crap at each race. I have NO PROBLEM with the new cars. I do agree that they should be in a class that is even matched just like the FI cars were. When Wally retired then later passed, sportsman racing changed for ever. NHRA is no longer worried about us. They only tolerate us because of the money we do bring in as racers and crew. You never hear an announcer mention sportsman on TV unless it is TAD or TAFC. The coverage on pro stock is even beginning to dwindle to give Force and others interview time. NHRA will say it is what the fans want to see but how can you want to see something that you are never shown. At national events as soon as the pro's run, Frey and others imediately tell fans to make it out to the Pro pits to get autographs and to check out the midway for food and souvenirs. Very rarely do you here them say "Fans stick around to watch the amazing wheel standing Stockers and Super Stockers coming to the line". So of course when Mopar and Ford want to sell more cars they invent a car that is no way ever going to be street legal, go to NHRA and say hey, we give you all this money let us run these cars in Stock so we can sell more cars the the public. WE know they can't afford the same cars that are on the track but the public thinks these cars are stock "wink wink" and it will cause them to buy our production cars. Who cares if others get hurt we just need to sell more stuff.

You mentioned "a lot of giveaway stuff" Please tell me where it is at so I can go get some.
What makes you think "they" can't afford to buy/build a new car?
As far a the money to build a new car compared to an older car goes. The days of "junkyard" parts are gone. Everything on a 69 Camaro or other muscle car is expensive. 8 years ago I was discussing wheel bearings with a guy that has a Camaro he spent almost $2000 for them.
Class racing is no longer a cheap way to race.

Ed Fernandez · 03-30-2010, 07:10 PM

Greg,why not send that post to Tom Compton.I'd like to see the answer that comes back to you.
BTW I agree with you 100%.

AC · 03-30-2010, 07:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by art leong

You mentioned "a lot of giveaway stuff" Please tell me where it is at so I can go get some.
What makes you think "they" can't afford to buy/build a new car?
As far a the money to build a new car compared to an older car goes. The days of "junkyard" parts are gone. Everything on a 69 Camaro or other muscle car is expensive. 8 years ago I was discussing wheel bearings with a guy that has a Camaro he spent almost $2000 for them.
Class racing is no longer a cheap way to race.

art if you want some trick wheel bearings or any type of bearings pm me i have a great contact for them and i used them on my stocker (this guy also makes them for many of the professionals and nascar teams) when i had it. And they wont cost you $2000.00

one thing i keep trying to compare is $100,000 for a Ford Mustang Stock Eliminator or $110,000 for a 2010 Porsche GT3 mmm if i had this money burning a hole in my pocket which one would i choose????

X-TECH MAN · 03-30-2010, 07:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AC

art if you want some trick wheel bearings or any type of bearings pm me i have a great contact for them and i used them on my stocker (this guy also makes them for many of the professionals and nascar teams) when i had it. And they wont cost you $2000.00

one thing i keep trying to compare is $100,000 for a Ford Mustang Stock Eliminator or $110,000 for a 2010 Porsche GT3 mmm if i had this money burning a hole in my pocket which one would i choose????

Id rather have an AMERICAN ZR-1 Corvette myself.

Jim Carter · 03-30-2010, 07:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ed Fernandez

Greg,why not send that post to Tom Compton.I'd like to see the answer that comes back to you.
BTW I agree with you 100%.

Ed:
And I agree with you 100%!! That letter needs to go straight to the top!
Greg you expressed it perfectly and respectfully.

Send it!!

BTW: Does anyone know what brand beer Santangelo likes? I want to bring him a case to Atco.
JC

Floyd Gomez · 03-30-2010, 09:17 PM

Art,
The giveaway stuff is to the fans. If you roam around the pro pits they are always handing out some sort of crap. Tire guages, koozies, hats, etc. As far as building a class car that is cheap it is possible. You may not be the fastest and have to run a slower class but it still can be done. Most people that see a new DP or CJ think that if it is a Stocker then it must be what they can walk into the dealership and buy to go ride around town. They don't see the 100K price tag without the capability of driving it home or to the local mall. I also don't think the junkyard days are gone. You can still find great parts you just have to look in the right places. It is all about how fast you want to go. I personally would rather run a K or L car for less money and still be competitive than to spend a 100K just so I can say I am the fastest. Guess that is just how I was raised. I am not knocking the new cars. I welcome them into the sport. I just wish the factoring would be closer or another class created like they did for the FI cars.

Quote:

Originally Posted by art leong

You mentioned "a lot of giveaway stuff" Please tell me where it is at so I can go get some.
What makes you think "they" can't afford to buy/build a new car?
As far a the money to build a new car compared to an older car goes. The days of "junkyard" parts are gone. Everything on a 69 Camaro or other muscle car is expensive. 8 years ago I was discussing wheel bearings with a guy that has a Camaro he spent almost $2000 for them.
Class racing is no longer a cheap way to race.

442OLDS · 03-30-2010, 10:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Greg Hill

This whole deal could have been handled in a way to benefit stock and super stock. Put them in separate classes for stock and make the hp factors right for stock and super stock. In my opinion this would have been a win win for everyone. Again why not? Do they [NHRA] want to run off all the rest of stock and super stock? These are questions I'm not sure of but I am sure of one thing. NHRA has not done this because they didn't know what they were doing. They knew exactly what they were doing and how it would affect all of us .

IHRA does have a lot of classes to prevent this type of thing.Then,people complain because there are too many classes.Just goes to show that it is IMPOSSIBLE to make EVERYONE happy.

Nevertheless,if any racer truly feels that they are not getting a fair shake from NHRA,then why doesn't anybody show up at some of the IHRA races?

For example,in June at Joliet,there will probably be close to 100 Stockers for an NHRA Divisional.The following week,there is an IHRA Sportsnationals at Byron,and I doubt if 20 cars will even show up.WHY?

I have tried to support BOTH sanctioning bodies,because when the day comes where there is only one left,NOBODY is going to be happy with the ultimate outcome!

(DISCLAIMER:This is not personal to anybody.All I'm saying is that if you support the NHRA Division race at Joliet,you should consider supporting the IHRA race at Byron the following weekend.Without a better turnout at Byron,I'm afraid it might be their last year there.)

BlueOval Ralph · 03-31-2010, 06:20 AM

Me a GT 2 Tubro 0-60 3.3 sec a true production car

Quote:

Originally Posted by X-TECH MAN

Id rather have an AMERICAN ZR-1 Corvette myself.

03-30-2010, 05:30 PM	#1
Greg Hill VIP Member Join Date: May 2006 Location: Louisville , KY Posts: 1,995 Likes: 68 Liked 279 Times in 68 Posts	What should the role of a sanctioning body be? NHRA is a 501-c6 non profit organization? According to IRS regulations 501- c6 organizations are membership based and are restricted to trade groups. An example would be SEMA whose members are the manufacturers whose interests SEMA represents. Now if NHRA is a membership based organization whose interests are they representing? I would say that they should represent all of our interests. Bracket racers, track owners, professional racers and sportsman racers. For the purposes of this thread I will focus on sportsman racers specifically stock and super stock racers. I think the first thing and most important a sanctioning body should do is provide a safe place for us to race. A safe race track with adequate safety people in case of mishaps. The next most important thing in my book is having rules that are fair and equitable and are evenly enforced. To provide a level playing field is extremely important. I realize that in all instances that outcome may not happen but they should strive to make it happen. How can a sanctioning body have any credibility with it's members when they consciously choose not to do that? I've been racing for quite a few years and in all my years I have never seen anything to approach the level of disrespect toward stock and super stock racers that NHRA has shown with the placement in stock of the new Challenger and Mustang. Why would they choose to do that? The rule change to allow them to compete in stock went against everything stock eliminator has meant for more than 40 years. The reason is hard to fathom. Nobody would have complained if they had put them in their own class even if it was in stock eliminator. The idea that NHRA would put them in regular stock classes with horsepower ratings from 50 to 100 hp soft is discouraging at best. This is changing the game to benefit a small group and crapping on people who have supported them for years. Again I ask the question why? Who does it benefit? Is there money involved ? If so where is the money going and to whom? This whole deal could have been handled in a way to benefit stock and super stock. Put them in separate classes for stock and make the hp factors right for stock and super stock. In my opinion this would have been a win win for everyone. Again why not? Do they [NHRA] want to run off all the rest of stock and super stock? These are questions I'm not sure of but I am sure of one thing. NHRA has not done this because they didn't know what they were doing. They knew exactly what they were doing and how it would affect all of us . __________________ Greg Hill 4171 STK

03-30-2010, 06:35 PM	#2
Floyd Gomez Member Join Date: May 2009 Location: South Carolina Posts: 275 Likes: 0 Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: What should the role of a sanctioning body be? Greg, Of course there is money changing hands and it is obvious from who. Mopar and Ford are heavy sponsors in the Pro ranks. They both sponsor National Events and have a ton of give away crap at each race. I have NO PROBLEM with the new cars. I do agree that they should be in a class that is even matched just like the FI cars were. When Wally retired then later passed, sportsman racing changed for ever. NHRA is no longer worried about us. They only tolerate us because of the money we do bring in as racers and crew. You never hear an announcer mention sportsman on TV unless it is TAD or TAFC. The coverage on pro stock is even beginning to dwindle to give Force and others interview time. NHRA will say it is what the fans want to see but how can you want to see something that you are never shown. At national events as soon as the pro's run, Frey and others imediately tell fans to make it out to the Pro pits to get autographs and to check out the midway for food and souvenirs. Very rarely do you here them say "Fans stick around to watch the amazing wheel standing Stockers and Super Stockers coming to the line". So of course when Mopar and Ford want to sell more cars they invent a car that is no way ever going to be street legal, go to NHRA and say hey, we give you all this money let us run these cars in Stock so we can sell more cars the the public. WE know they can't afford the same cars that are on the track but the public thinks these cars are stock "wink wink" and it will cause them to buy our production cars. Who cares if others get hurt we just need to sell more stuff.

03-30-2010, 07:10 PM	#4
Ed Fernandez Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: NOO JOISEY nexta NOO YAWK Posts: 5,879 Likes: 38 Liked 100 Times in 45 Posts	Re: What should the role of a sanctioning body be? Greg,why not send that post to Tom Compton.I'd like to see the answer that comes back to you. BTW I agree with you 100%. __________________ Former NHRA #1945 Former IHRA #1945 T/SA