Billet cams and lifter supply

[ProfessorRock]

So i think its time to have a serious conversation about the problem that we are having right now with lifters and cam cores .Again --- this time its billet or steel cams and what kind of lifter material you are going to put on the billet cam. This is a problem only with flat tappets, so those using rollersmay not even be aware. So how many 'just stockers" using flats are there?? If u r one of those racers or eng. builders that have tried ordering a set of steel lifters to put on your steel cam, you know there are none ,zero avail. anywhere,and back ordered 6months or more. It seems to me that the eng. builders don't want to talk about it in public. (why? maybe they all think that their customers (racers) believe that their builder is the only one who knows how to get a bigger cam lobe and use more spring pressure than all the other guys. LMAO as its some big secret haha (it isn't). All the top builders know how to do it. So no one talks about it. But NOW its a problem for everyone. Want a new cam ,great heres one.$500 Example -Want some steel tappets to go on that fancy new cam- sorry Sic dont got any. Well we have just a couple sets coated with DLC cost$2200 or more.and if they bounce just one time they will destroy your engine. Not our fault. So i started this thread because i know a little bit about materials and coatings, not everything ,but a little. So why dont some of you builders who belong to Classracer get in this conversation and see if we can find a solution,because it is not going away anytime soon. I know this likely does not affect the cars with smaller engines or cam specs. that dont use a lot of spring pressure. But most do. So as much as us older guys don't like all the rule changes, allowing not original parts ,it might be time to have this discussion with NHRA to save the pre 1987 cars. Because all of the roller motors (engines) do not have this problem. as Mr. William said "tis not that i love Caesar less, but that i love Rome (classracing) more. I am posting this on top forum also.

[john ancona]

Originally Posted by ProfessorRock

So i think its time to have a serious conversation about the problem that we are having right now with lifters and cam cores .Again --- this time its billet or steel cams and what kind of lifter material you are going to put on the billet cam. This is a problem only with flat tappets, so those using rollersmay not even be aware. So how many 'just stockers" using flats are there?? If u r one of those racers or eng. builders that have tried ordering a set of steel lifters to put on your steel cam, you know there are none ,zero avail. anywhere,and back ordered 6months or more. It seems to me that the eng. builders don't want to talk about it in public. (why? maybe they all think that their customers (racers) believe that their builder is the only one who knows how to get a bigger cam lobe and use more spring pressure than all the other guys. LMAO as its some big secret haha (it isn't). All the top builders know how to do it. So no one talks about it. But NOW its a problem for everyone. Want a new cam ,great heres one.$500 Example -Want some steel tappets to go on that fancy new cam- sorry Sic dont got any. Well we have just a couple sets coated with DLC cost$2200 or more.and if they bounce just one time they will destroy your engine. Not our fault. So i started this thread because i know a little bit about materials and coatings, not everything ,but a little. So why dont some of you builders who belong to Classracer get in this conversation and see if we can find a solution,because it is not going away anytime soon. I know this likely does not affect the cars with smaller engines or cam specs. that dont use a lot of spring pressure. But most do. So as much as us older guys don't like all the rule changes, allowing not original parts ,it might be time to have this discussion with NHRA to save the pre 1987 cars. Because all of the roller motors (engines) do not have this problem. as Mr. William said "tis not that i love Caesar less, but that i love Rome (classracing) more. I am posting this on top forum also.

Good Luck This topic has been addressed many times over many years NHRA does not want to talk about it, oh they listen ,and look at the the damage shown to them but well you can see the results ,also their is the other Racers that the minute anyone says
Lifters they are quick to say that is one more step closer to super stock but they all have the all the many steps closer in there car !

[B Parker]

This is a unique problem now that there are none. Compared to before where racers just wanted to switch to a roller lifter when flat tappet steel lifters were available. Not many will say anything until they are the ones waiting for a new set to be made. And then they find out 6 months to a year and at twice the price they were. The excuse that Stock would be one step closer to Super Stocker doesn't fly. Not when you have cars running in Stock that are closer to comp than to Stock. I don't need a set right now but I know several racers that are waiting for them. With no real time line when to expect any. I know one racer that was quoted recently $2400 and about a year wait. I get if the rules weren't changed and they didn't allow some of the valve train changes we wouldn't have this problem. That horse left the barn years ago. I try to look forward instead of what if's. BP

[james schaechter]

I bought a set of tool steel lifters recently for under $300 and had them treated for $250. I use a nitrided cam. This is a SBC and 210 on the seat. Works for me. The place I got these from is RPM Machine in North Carolina and made in USA. I think he may make them for other brands. He says he has some in stock. I found his ad on Facebook and just called and ordered them. For me, the process works and isn’t too crazy $$$.

Originally Posted by B Parker

This is a unique problem now that there are none. Compared to before where racers just wanted to switch to a roller lifter when flat tappet steel lifters were available. Not many will say anything until they are the ones waiting for a new set to be made. And then they find out 6 months to a year and at twice the price they were. The excuse that Stock would be one step closer to Super Stocker doesn't fly. Not when you have cars running in Stock that are closer to comp than to Stock. I don't need a set right now but I know several racers that are waiting for them. With no real time line when to expect any. I know one racer that was quoted recently $2400 and about a year wait. I get if the rules weren't changed and they didn't allow some of the valve train changes we wouldn't have this problem. That horse left the barn years ago. I try to look forward instead of what if's. BP

[ProfessorRock]

Photo from one of said lifters
let me know if you cant see it Rock

[Henrys Toy]

Originally Posted by ProfessorRock

Photo from one of said lifters
let me know if you cant see it Rock

Good morning to all,
Holy Christmas, that poor piece of steel looks like it was machined with a Very Worn out Cutting tool!!!!!!!!
I can only hope that doesn't make it into someone's engine.

Sadly - Respectfully,
Henry Kunz 1534 H/SA

[ProfessorRock]

So- i am calling a time out on this thread before someone or a lot gets burned here. I have no connection to the referenced lifter maker or any other lifter or cam mfg. But the lifter photo i posted was sent to me ,(my co) by one of the most well known and fast engine builders in the country to see if i could fix the surface,with one of our coatings. (I could not). You can literally drag a fingernail across the surface and feel the roughness of the surface.So itried etching and then polishing one to see if i could get anything near acceptable for applying .No .Then took some pics with our microscope to get more info. They are over at another lab as we talk getting hardness tested. I have no dog in the hunt here,just trying to help my friends, you guys!!! So u might want to be prudent and wait for more info before u go ordering stuff.
Maybe its just a bad batch or ?? But this builder or others i spoke with are not putting those on any engine. I did not expect this subject to come upwhen i posted this but, maybe its good that it did. You can see a little bit about my experience and what i do at forcealtered.com But this is in no way a promotion for me our what i do. I am just in the startup/re-startup phase and Ken M. is aware of me and what i do.

[SSDiv6]

Originally Posted by ProfessorRock

So i think its time to have a serious conversation about the problem that we are having right now with lifters and cam cores .Again --- this time its billet or steel cams and what kind of lifter material you are going to put on the billet cam. This is a problem only with flat tappets, so those using rollersmay not even be aware. So how many 'just stockers" using flats are there?? If u r one of those racers or eng. builders that have tried ordering a set of steel lifters to put on your steel cam, you know there are none ,zero avail. anywhere,and back ordered 6months or more. It seems to me that the eng. builders don't want to talk about it in public. (why? maybe they all think that their customers (racers) believe that their builder is the only one who knows how to get a bigger cam lobe and use more spring pressure than all the other guys. LMAO as its some big secret haha (it isn't). All the top builders know how to do it. So no one talks about it. But NOW its a problem for everyone. Want a new cam ,great heres one.$500 Example -Want some steel tappets to go on that fancy new cam- sorry Sic dont got any. Well we have just a couple sets coated with DLC cost$2200 or more.and if they bounce just one time they will destroy your engine. Not our fault. So i started this thread because i know a little bit about materials and coatings, not everything ,but a little. So why dont some of you builders who belong to Classracer get in this conversation and see if we can find a solution,because it is not going away anytime soon. I know this likely does not affect the cars with smaller engines or cam specs. that dont use a lot of spring pressure. But most do. So as much as us older guys don't like all the rule changes, allowing not original parts ,it might be time to have this discussion with NHRA to save the pre 1987 cars. Because all of the roller motors (engines) do not have this problem. as Mr. William said "tis not that i love Caesar less, but that i love Rome (classracing) more. I am posting this on top forum also.

Yes, there is a supply chain issue with parts.
The current catalog solid lifters have metallurgy and manufacturing issues.

PPPC, Trend and Crower manufacture the best solid lifters for use with billet camshaft cores. DLC is a nanocomposite coating and there are different types of DLC coatings that contain a different matrix. Never seen a lifter fail due to the DLC coating failing to what you call "bouncing". The only lifters I have seen fail had a ceramic puck added to the contact area.

If you valve "bouncing" on your lifters, then you have other problems that need to be addressed such as an unstable valvetrain and/or valvetrain issues..

Stock Eliminator is not the only class being affected due to the quality of solid lifters. There are many circle track associations, with sealed and non-sealed engines experiencing the same issues and many are considering the allowance of roller lifters.

[Tim H]

.....................

[Sam Murray]

The other side of the coin is if all the associations including NHRA allow rollers. How long will it take to be a supply chain issue for rollers? Are they available for every engine make?