New HP

[Evan Smith]

Alan and Dick, I never said it couldn't be improved. I said it will never be perfect. The reason I'm on the SRAC is to try and continue to improve the system and to rectify other issues. I just tire of people who bash without facts (not saying that either of you did that).

It just amazes me to see some of the stuff on here. There was something about no Mustangs getting hp, when with a little research, anyone can see that the '67 428 did get hp. Yes, NHRA loves Mustang drivers in Stock so much that they will never get hp again and can run flat out at will. People actually believe crap like this.

Evan

[bsa633]

Originally Posted by Alan Roehrich

Now that we have the AA class, the Hemi isn't out of anything. Besides, I guess you've never seen Barton run, and let's not forget Shaul and the other non Hemi Chryslers. Further, word has it when Henson ran that high 9.80, the car already weighed about what it had to after he got the HP the next Tuesday.
.

Have you seen alot of Hemi-Cuda's or Challengers latley??those were the cars i was talking about if you read my post.. I doubt anyone seriously will try to "get in the match" as long they have a 457 hp factor..looks dead to me!!

[X-TECH MAN]

Originally Posted by Evan Smith

New hp is posted on the Lucas site. The '67 Ford 428 355 engine got 5 hp. It was 367, is now 372. For the record, it is the racers who give hp, not the NHRA. Of course, the class, engine and body combo can be twisted around, but by and large it is the racer's average, or a 1.40 (or quicker) run that garners anyone the lead trophy.

Let's face it, there is no way we will ever have a "perfect" system considering we are tying to even the playing field for virtually 50 years worth of cars, trucks and the technology that each vehicle brings. Not to mention the variation of tracks, weather, tech, compression ratios, displacement, wheelbase, body and driveline design. If anyone is smart enough to create a system that can equalize all of this madness I would gladly buy them dinner.

Evan

I know this is "BEATING A DEAD HORSE" but dont forget all of the bogus cars and parts (some of the very ones you are talking about) that NEVER get DQ'ed because the NHRA tech dept. will not grow the balls or gain the knowledge.....no, let me refrase that....the tech dept. knows whats going on and most are good ....its because management is afraid of law suites and the same crap just keeps going on year after year because every time the tech dept throws someone out the "big guy" in Calif. over rides the decision....the guys who believe in the "tooth fairy" will always be 2 to 3 tenths behind. The ones who can keep up are using soft combinations and never seem to get HP. Things will never change until management changes. What happened to the process of weighing pistons and rods in tear down????? I know you guys get tired of me saying this but wake up and take a look around. I could name a few names and exactly what they are doing but its of no use and not on this forum.

[Alan Roehrich]

Originally Posted by Evan Smith

Alan and Dick, I never said it couldn't be improved. I said it will never be perfect. The reason I'm on the SRAC is to try and continue to improve the system and to rectify other issues. I just tire of people who bash without facts (not saying that either of you did that).

It just amazes me to see some of the stuff on here. There was something about no Mustangs getting hp, when with a little research, anyone can see that the '67 428 did get hp. Yes, NHRA loves Mustang drivers in Stock so much that they will never get hp again and can run flat out at will. People actually believe crap like this.

Evan

Evan,
The problem is that the AHFS is so flawed in its present state that people get pretty damned aggravated with it. And then NHRA flat out refuses to fix it. At all. That is why people rail against it so much. Take a look at your example. Go look at the blueprint specifications for that engine, and then go look at the specifications for the 396 and 427 Chevy, just as an example. Compared to the 396/375 with aluminum heads, the 428 you use as an example carries 33 LESS HP, or in A/SA, 264 POUNDS LESS. Now that's not the ONLY example, maybe not even the worst. But it is pretty bad. Yes, the guys who run it are smart in choosing it, and smart in protecting it. But a car that is already slower has gotten more HP in 6 months than it has gotten in two years. The AHFS doesn't have a few minor flaws, it has holes you could damned near drive a Comp car through.

[Alan Roehrich]

Originally Posted by bsa633

Have you seen alot of Hemi-Cuda's or Challengers latley??those were the cars i was talking about if you read my post.. I doubt anyone seriously will try to "get in the match" as long they have a 457 hp factor..looks dead to me!!

LOOKED at them? I know a guy locally who runs a REAL one. Yes, he carries a lot of weight. But it runs pretty damned well, especially considering he has not really thrashed on it. Like I said, word is Henson was already at the weight currently required when he made the pass. Yes, he made it hard on everyone else running the combination. But no, he didn't completely kill it, and no, everyone didn't quit running it.

[Bruce Noland]

Over the years Bobby and the Sorensen brothers have raced their cars at Indy.

Also please take a look at the west coast race schedule before putting too much weight into who shows up at Indy. They begin racing very early out there. Racers' fatigue sets in by early summer and a lot of them take a break until the fall races. Many fast racers have made the journey out west for the early and late racing season where they have locked horns with Bobby and the Sorensen brothers.

Bobby has flogged that blue Camaro as hard as any one has ever flogged a stocker and his results have been nothing short of exceptional - AA/SA record holder and first class AA/SA class winner since the return of the class. And don't forget that little 9 second run he made a few years ago - after that run he had the first, if not the only, video taped tear down.

[PJ305]

Originally Posted by greg fulk

The 73-81 dish piston 350 got hit again too it's @ 287 now up from 283! 2 years ago it was @ 275! & had been for quite some time

Greg,

Did the 73-80 Corvette get HP? I can't get the class guide to open.

Thanks

[Jared Jordan]

Originally Posted by Alan Roehrich

LOOKED at them? I know a guy locally who runs a REAL one. Yes, he carries a lot of weight. But it runs pretty damned well, especially considering he has not really thrashed on it. Like I said, word is Henson was already at the weight currently required when he made the pass. Yes, he made it hard on everyone else running the combination. But no, he didn't completely kill it, and no, everyone didn't quit running it.

That was some of the best air anyone's ever seen when Henson ran the 9.89 at Belle Rose. Ask him. He'll tell you the same thing.

That combo at 457 hp is a total waste of time if you want to be "the guy" in A or AA/SA. Yes, it is still somewhat competitive and a good one will still go fairly fast, but not fast enough. Why do you think West/Henson built the GTX? Fred even tried to put a 4-speed in the Challenger to get around the HP factor. Think he would have done all of that if he thought he could go to Indy and win at 457 hp?

I know how much power those motors make (had a few of them on our dyno) and let me tell you Fred's motor had the same hp as the other ones that I've seen dyno'd. Why haven't you heard about the other ones? They were done after Fred's and now weigh 3840 lbs in A/SA.

[Chuck Beach]

Evan Smith is exactly right, it will never be perfect and really can't be adjusted that would make much difference. I have posted on here many times about this subject. Here is the list again:

1) we don't all go to the same machine shop
2) we don't all run the same combination
3) we don't all run the same brand
4) we don't all have equal OEM 'replacement parts' (heads, blocks, etc.)
5) we don't all spend the same amount of money
6) we don't all put the same time and effort into our combo
7) we don't all race at the same races where the conditions could be mind shaft or really bad
8) we don't all run our race cars on kill all the time nor do we want to because of the wear and tear, so it only makes sense to back them down if no heads up are involved
9) we don't all race the same number of races each year, so the data is not consistant
10) there are not the same number of cars that make up each combo, some have 2 or 3 cars (ie. 340) while others have 50 or more (ie. 305's)
11) we don't all own our own machine shops

So with this in mind are we trying to

1) create a socialist class (everyone is the same regardless of time, money and effort)
2) penalize the racers that work hard, spend the time and money to be the best
3) throw out what this class was built on ..... PERFORMANCE

Race and SHUT UP ....

[442OLDS]

Originally Posted by Alan Roehrich

I'll have to disagree with you Evan. There have been some really good discussions on how to fix the AHFS, and while it can never be perfect, nor can you prevent people from working the system, it can be improved a great deal. It would not take a great deal of effort on the part of NHRA, but evidently NHRA feels any extra effort on their part is too much.

Alan,you make some good points.However,the bottom line is that "Stock Eliminator is NOT a class for everyone and not everyone will be successful"
Did I quote that correctly?
I would put that in bold,but not sure how you do that.